20mph speed limits in Wales

Simon E wrote:

Guardian article published just now: Vehicle damage claims in Wales fall 20% since speed limit cut to 20mph, says insurer

Quote:

The restriction is clearly having an impact.

Preventing impacts, surely?

Hope premiums will come down then...

Steve K wrote:

So, just after the evidence comes out showing that 20mph limits reduce casualties, the Conservatives announce that they will ban them if elected. Thankfully, that's similar to me planning all the things I'm going to do when I win the lottery, even though I never buy a ticket.

More comparable might be deciding that 1 in every 150 people buying a ticket is given an electric shock while 1 in 1,000 is killed by a speeding driver shortly after walking out of the shop.

Welsh Tories seem only interested in knee-jerk opposition to anything that Labour does. And, since they give the impression of being utter bar stewards, doing so requires no ethical dilemmas or pricking of conscience. By all means hold the government to account, that's absolutely essential, but STOP playing games with people's lives!

Ah, but it's "encouraging contempt for speed limits" though! *

Or it's risking a backlash - and then ALL 20mph speed limits will go back up because the ones that were "reasonable" and which had to be fought for in detail will apparently automatically revert just like the rest.

I've got slightly more regard for this one, although I'm not all over the detail e.g. would everything be undone at a stroke?  It's possible, I guess... Also, if some government / local authority just wants to tear it all up I think that's *always* doable.  At least until some future age where large parts of Wales / even the UK have actually transformed and a substantial majority of people like it that way.

* Hope I'm not doing the argument a disservice but - as far as I understood it - it was: people have some (innate? learned?) feeling for what the speed limits should be because road design makes for a natural speed limit (? or maybe just because that's what they're used to?), so changing this without any alteration to the road design triggers their feelings of unfairness / makes them notice that the law is arbitrary and think "sod it".  The latter is always a risk given our minimal enforcement - even of cut-and-dried / don't need actual coppers things like speed limits.

Also - I think at least as important are the more "touchy-feely" metrics - has this created nicer places?  How have people's feelings about maybe walking or cycling that trip changed?  (Perhaps it's as subtle as "I've noticed conversations are easier on the way back from school now and I get less 'but why can't you drive us there?' ")?

Or (more definable - although perhaps takes longer to change) what has been the impact on numbers walking and cycling?

More monitoring data coming soon... https://www.gov.wales/vehicle-speed-monitoring-data-september-2023-february-2024-announcement

Drinfinity wrote:

I was delayed by 90 minutes on my way back from Antur Stiniog*
 

*89'50" of that was on the M56, but imagine how much quicker I would have been if I could swerve through Llanrwst at 30. 

Yeah but then you get to the A55 and chances are that you join a long queue somewhere, there seem to be multiple incidents that cause tailbacks every week.

The 'grace period' that lets drivers doing 25 mph (20% + 2mph instead of the usual 10% + 2,mph) off the hook after the introduction of the new 20 mph speed limit ends on 17 December. Not a moment too soon.

Some great comments about the bloke from Leamington Spa who won't be visiting Wales again (already mentioned in this thread):

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/hilarious-responses-man-wh...

I'll be back in Bangor at the weekend. I'm already looking forward to negotiating the relatively calm 20 mph traffic when I run a few errands and, weather permitting, get out for a proper bike ride.

Starting to think that we on here should all commit to taking a cycling holiday in Wales next year.

I can't promise that vehicles driven outside urban areas will be as considerate (and certainly won't be doing 20 mph). But there are parts of Wales where a cycling can be great... provided you aren't expecting the terrain to be flat!

David9694 wrote:

Starting to think that we on here should all commit to taking a cycling holiday in Wales next year.

I'm planning a LEJOG next year, but unfortunately the sensible routes don't go through Wales. I will try to work in a visit before I get to my start at Land's End.

andystow wrote:

I'm planning a LEJOG next year, but unfortunately the sensible routes don't go through Wales. I will try to work in a visit before I get to my start at Land's End.

Lots of great places to ride so I hope it isn't a fleeting visit. Keep us informed of your plans, it would be good to know when you're doing it. One of the nicer LEJOG routes passes through Shrewsbury and the LBS is visited frequently by those en route in need of assistance.

On the whole you're right - though the Ride Across Britain (supported LEJOG) dips into Wales on Day 3 and wends up the Wye valley - and a lovely route it is too. 

David9694 wrote:

Englishman says he will 'stop coming' to Wales on holiday because it is 'too risky' with 20mph speed limit

'It looks as if Wales' loss will be Devon's gain'

"Sadly we have deiced to call a stop to our Welsh breaks as we are not prepared to risk a large fine and three penalty points for accidently doing 22mph in a built up area. It looks as if Wales' loss will be Devon's gain. I might add that several of our acquaintances all feel the same. We will really miss Wales."

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/englishman-says-stop-comin...

It's a little realised fact (I read it on a website once) that the Welsh 20mph limits in the villages and towns is to make it easier for those in The Welsh Hinterlands to capture English tourist, for rendering into pie-meat and also the stuff sold for kebabs. 

Not that any Welsh person would eat such things.  They sell them to the English tourists who manage to get through to Little England Beyond Wales. (I imagine that The Scot will enjoy them too, mind).

Cugel, adopted by The Welsh because too bitter for the pies.

David9694 wrote:

Englishman says he will 'stop coming' to Wales on holiday because it is 'too risky' with 20mph speed limit

'It looks as if Wales' loss will be Devon's gain'

 

I think you have your gain and loss mixed up

Wrexham magistrate quits rather than enforce 20mph law

Good news- it is to be hoped that many police officers will also do the decent thing and accept the consequences of their refusal to enforce pretty much any traffic law ever

wtjs wrote:

Wrexham magistrate quits rather than enforce 20mph law

Good news- it is to be hoped that many police officers will also do the decent thing and accept the consequences of their refusal to enforce pretty much any traffic law ever

In this day and age, would anyone notice the absence of the  polis? For millions and millions, such an absence is already evident, unless you want to protest that "the authorities" are in cahoots with world-burning, war-mongering loons.

Mind, the avid polis of Derbyshire, was it, did all that policing of dog walkers in remote hill areas during Covid. If it wasn't for droning after those dangerous terrorists with their dripping conks and evil hounds, we'd all be dead now!

And don't forget their very important work stopping and lecturing grandads and little girls & boys daring to ride their bicycles without a polystyrene hat! If that sort of behaviour is allowed to spread, civilisation will soon crumble.

Then there's all the hard work ignoring loons looning in cars ..... . It's exhausting having to turn so many blind eyes!

David9694 wrote:

Multiple 'go-slow' protests planned over Wales' 20mph speed limit

The protests are taking place as part of 'National Convoy Day' organised to oppose the Ultra Low Emission Zone in London

...

So - lemme get this right - this is "malicious compliance"?  Drivers are trying to make a point by pedantically following the law and driving extra carefully*?

Please can this be something that takes off and then becomes a regular thing, like drum and bass on a bike!

(* I'm assuming that they're not invoking the Critical Mass rule of keeping going if traffic lights change when the group is passing through - though I'm not sure drivers of motor vehicles have the same excuse of "safety".)

Can't see anything in the news today (the day after) about any of this. 

David9694 wrote:

The Tory opposition leader: "Our position is simple: there are much more important things to be focusing on than new measures to restrict car users even further, " and the sheer brass neck "which inevitably negatively impacts the most vulnerable."

Presumably they're feeling vulnerable themselves - to the effects of angry drivers voters...