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Tour de France director says the question of Pogačar doping is “not an illegitimate one”; Should people get tax relief for cycling to work?; Chloe Dygert drops out of stage race… after bumping into door and breaking her nose + more on the live blog

Welcome to the live blog one and all! It’s the middle of the week and Adwitiya’s your host for the day with all the cycling news, reaction and more

SUMMARY

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09 October 2024, 16:06
Tadej Pogačar wins 2024 Giro dell’Emilia (Zac Williams/SWpix.com)
Tour de France director says the question of Pogačar doping is “not an illegitimate one”, but lauds him for bring a true champion like Merckx and Hinault with a “will to win everything” while still “having fun”

As the 2024 road cycling season approaches its conclusion, there’s one name who has been everywhere, done everything and won (almost) everything. First, it was the solo win in Strade Bianche, then he won the Volta a Catalunya with more stage wins than the rest of the peloton combined, and then, exorcising ghosts from past year, he won the Liège-Bastogne-Liège for a second time.

As the spring gave way to summer, and as the classics and monuments gave way to the two Grand Tours, Pogačar simply went and got what he wanted: the first Giro-Tour double since Marco Pantani in 1998. After deciding to skip the Paris Olympics, allowing himself a break and rejuvenation period of sorts, last month, he repeated what he had just done, ie. get what he wanted — it was the rainbow jersey this time — and with that, the hallowed ‘Triple Crown’ of cycling.

> road.cc Podcast: Is Tadej Pogačar the greatest cyclist who’s ever lived? Plus we ask: What’s going on with cycling media in 2024?

But as cycling fans would know, with wins and success comes intense scrutiny. In a sport which has made legends and seen them torn down by malpractices, it would make sense that admirers and regulators of the sport alike would pay extra attention, having been burnt not once, not twice, but many times.

Tadej Pogačar wins the 2024 world road race championships, Zurich (Ed Sykes/SWpix.com)

Tadej Pogačar wins the 2024 world road race championships, Zurich (Ed Sykes/SWpix.com)

It was Jonas Vingegaard and the Visma-Lease a Bike (Jumbo Visma back then) who was subject to the microscopic lens after his two consecutive Tour de France wins last year, and now the attention seems to have fallen back on Pogačar — this time, it’s the Tour de France director Christian Prudhomme himself who’s aired the questions.

In an interview with La Dépêche du Midi, Christian Prudhomme was asked to share his thoughts on the question of doping question in he sport, and if he’d be surprised to find out in future that Pogačar had, in fact, been using performance-enhancing drugs.

He replied: “Given the past of cycling and not so far, your question is not illegitimate. I do not have an answer. I note that it gives a boost to cycling competitions, by stages or one day, quite impressive. The controls exist, we fought with ASO to have independents, today it is the case with ITA [International Testing Agency]. There you go…”

He ended the question by giving Pogačar his roses still, saying: “We’re back to how it used to be, that is to say champions who are there from the beginning to the end of the season and with this will to win everything, which makes him similar to not only Eddy Merckx, but also to Bernard Hinault...

“For years, I heard Bernard say that these guys have to rediscover their sense of the game again, they have to have fun! That’s exactly what Pogacar is doing.”

09 October 2024, 15:17
Driver drinking vodka from 7Up bottle in car crashes into cyclist on bike lane while six times over drink drive limit – and offers victim €2,500 as “token of remorse”
Cyclist in Dublin (licensed CC BY 2.0 on Flickr by Teyvan Petttinger)

A motorist who was drinking vodka from a 7Up bottle at the wheel when she struck a cyclist from behind on a cycle lane, leaving the rider with concussion and ongoing pain and discomfort, offered him €2,500 as a “token of remorse” before pleading guilty to careless driving.

> Driver drinking vodka from 7Up bottle in car crashes into cyclist on bike lane while six times over drink drive limit – and offers victim €2,500 as “token of remorse”

09 October 2024, 10:58
Chloe Dygert at 2024 UCI Road World Championships (Alex Whitehead/SWpix.com)
“Bad luck taking impressive proportions”: Chloe Dygert drops out of Simac Ladies Tour… after bumping into a door and breaking her nose

Ahead of the second stage of the Simac Ladies Tour, Team Canyon-SRAM has announced that it’s lost three of its riders in a day, with Maike van der Duin and Soraya Paladin suffering from illness, while former American road and time trial champion Chloe Dygert has withdrawn after she broke her nose… apparently after bumping into a door.

It’s as if you Tyche herself came to the earth and decided to curse the team bus of Canyon-SRAM…

Dygert’s situation has left cycling fans confused and baffled — with the 27-year-old not enjoying a lot of luck lately. She suffered a horror injury four years ago, suffering a severe laceration to her left leg. But while she has recovered from that setback, illnesses and other injuries have never really left her side — which Dygert claims has disallowed her from achieving her full potential.

She did manage to win two medals, one each in road and track cycling at the Paris Olympics earlier this year. However, at the individual time trial, she crashed on the wet Parisian roads, losing crucial time in her bid for gold and had to settle for bronze, and then at the road race was the architect of her own downfall when she divebombed her Canyon-SRAM teammate Elise Chabbey and caused a crash.

Just weeks ago, Dygert — a self-proclaimed Conservative and ‘not-a-femisinist’ who was the focus of a controversy a few years ago when she liked transphobic and racist posts on Twitter — once again fell just short of claiming the road world championship title in Zürich, getting outsprinted by eventual winner and arguably one of the best sprinters in the peloton, Lotte Kopecky.

“It’s still hard to say that I’m happy… I just could not wait for Paris because I knew it was going to be a course for me. I knew it was going to be flat and I was so excited. So to not have a good day on race day was frustrating,” she told Olympics.com, after her third-place finish at the time trial, having missed silver by a few seconds.

> Chloe Dygert apology for social media conduct “not sufficient” says Rapha

All that aside, situation has gone from a euphoric high to a difficult low for Canyon-SRAM, leaving the team with just two riders for the six-day stage-race in the Netherlands, the British duo of Alex Morrice and Zoe Bäckstedt, who took her first pro win yesterday, winning the first stage, a 10.1km time trial in Gennep.

09 October 2024, 14:25
"Banned" bike shop claims Shimano won't let it inspect Hollowtech cranks as part of its "inspection and replacement" programme due to failing 100% of them
Investigating Shimano’s snapping cranksets Sept 2023

One year on from Shimano announcing a voluntary inspection and replacement recall of Hollowtech cranks, a UK-based bike shop has claimed it has been "banned" from the inspection programme after the components giant took issue with its policy of sending all cranks back to the manufacturer due to safety concerns.

Read more: > "Banned" bike shop claims Shimano won't let it inspect Hollowtech cranks as part of its "inspection and replacement" programme due to failing 100% of them

09 October 2024, 13:34
Big question of the day: Should people who cycle to work get a tax relief?

Oooh! Big questions coming in from the Twitter user CycleNotts, who’s made good use of the Norman Rockwell painting ‘Freedom of Speech’ meme trend, to say something so brave and so controversial…

Lots of people had lots of different thoughts about this idea, with cyclist going by the username of ‘Real Gaz on a proper bike’ on social media, saying: “I applaud and agree with this. Cycling to work is a positive health intervention which should be rewarded and encouraged.”

Steve Hunt, meanwhile, seemed to be fixated on the feasibilities of how the whole tax relief thing would work: “I like the concept, but how could it be practically administered?  How do you prove a distance cycled and not driven?”

CycleNotts, the instigator of this online conversation, noted that the policy does work in other countries. In the Netherlands, for almost two decades businesses have rewarded bike-riding commuters €0.19 per kilometre, a spend the government allows them to deduct from their tax bill.

This mileage allowance was previously only available to drivers who could claim it to cover the cost of fuel. Since bikes don’t require expensive petrol, cyclists can simply pocket the money — which can amount up to €450 a year if someone’s cycling 10 kilometres a day, five days a week!

Even Belgium and France have similar schemes in place. In fact, one in five employees of small and medium-sized Belgian enterprises received a bicycle allowance of €0.24 per cycled kilometre in the first half of 2022. And in France, commuters can claim up to €0.25 per kilometre they cycle to work, up to a yearly cap of around €200.

So back to the big question, do you think the UK should introduce a similar tax relief for those cycling to work — saving the planet and improving mental and physical health at the same time? Let us know in the comments!

09 October 2024, 13:08
Amazon Prime Day cycling deals: Garmin Edge 530 down to £182, huge light savings including 43% off Cateye AMPP light set + 27% off Magicshine, big discounts on tools + more
Prime Day Oct 2024 - v2

What's that? The sound of our capitalist overlords throwing us some scraps?! I guess we'll take it!

As always, we're only recommending things here that are genuinely the cheapest on the internet right now, and if you see it for less anywhere else (or in a physical bike shop) let us know and we're happy to send people to the better deal instead. Try not to buy stuff you don't need for obvious reasons, and be sure to sign up for an Amazon Prime accountto take advantage of the deals, free delivery etc.

Don't tell the Bezos, but you can just sign up for a one-month trial and stick a reminder in your phone to cancel it when this latest bargain-fest is over and done with. 

> Amazon Prime Day cycling deals: Garmin Edge 530 down to £182, huge light savings including 43% off Cateye AMPP light set + 27% off Magicshine, big discounts on tools + more

09 October 2024, 12:09
New road.cc podcast episode klaxon: Is Tadej Pogačar the greatest cyclist who’s ever lived? Plus we ask: What’s going on with cycling media in 2024?
road.cc Podcast episode 88

In the latest episode of the road.cc Podcast, we dive headfirst into the GOAT debate before going all meta with a chat about the current cycling media landscape, why it’s changed (and changing), and whether we should be worried about the future...

 

> Is Tadej Pogačar the greatest cyclist who’s ever lived? Plus we ask: What’s going on with cycling media in 2024?

09 October 2024, 08:59
CCTV footage of incident that saw drug driver avoid jail for hitting cyclist (Facebook/Ted Sayers)
“A close call is when they miss you, not when they hit you”: Cyclists criticise judge for giving suspended prison sentence to drug driver who knocked cyclist 20 feet in the air

There’s been a lot of chatter around the suspended prison sentence story for the driver who was found with twice the legal limit for cannabis in his system hit a cyclist while overtaking a stalled car at a red light, sending the rider coming from the opposite direction flying 20 feet into the air and leaving him with serious injuries.

CCTV footage of the incident showed Danial Arshad cause a head-on collision with Nicholas Cooper, who suffered a collapsed lung, fractures to his ribs and spine, and even a risk of paralysis, with the judge himself saying “Mr Cooper was very fortunate not to have died.”

However, the judge also described the incident as a “close call” and said it was clear Arshad being “impatient” and “under the influence to some extent of cannabis” had caused it, ultimately handing him a 10 year suspended prison sentence. He was suspended for driving for three years and is required to undertake 15 days of rehabilitation activity and 300 hours of unpaid work as part of his sentence.

> Drug driver who caused horrific crash which seriously injured cyclist avoids jail, given 10-month suspended sentence

The sentence seems to have caught a lot of backlash from cyclists, who described the decision as “appalling” and “joke of a sentence”.

A cyclist who goes by the name of Orpington Cyclist on Twitter tagged the Transport Secretary Louise Haigh and asked: “What does the below tell you about road safety in the UK?”

Another person replied saying that “the timing of that report coincides perfectly with Louise Haigh’s discussions on road safety” and that “without sentencing that reflects the severity, less people will want to cycle and bad or dangerous drivers will have little to deter them from endangering others in the future.”

Meanwhile, another person replied to road.cc’s tweet about the news criticising the judge describing the incident as a close call, saying: “A close call is when they miss you not when they hit you. What hope do you have with judges like this?”

There were several others who thought the judge’s sentence was too lenient, one even saying: “Judge needs sacking, not competent to take the evidence and create a sentence or needs to fine the driver 50k and ban for ten years.”

Another person wrote: “I know it’s not comparable but a woman was recently jailed for 12 weeks for missing a probation appointment 20 yrs ago, thereby losing her job & her children. What’s worse, missing an appointment, or drug-driving & hitting a cyclist? What’s gone wrong with our legal system?”

On Facebook, Howard Crompton wrote: “That made my stomach turn. The cyclist in question has been let down so badly it’s untrue. I hope he puts in an extensive insurance claim too. How is there any tolerance for drink or drugs I don’t know. I know it won’t stop people doing it, but sentences like this are outrageous.”

Fairley Grist said: “I was initially angry about this and Having seen the video and read the comments from the judge almost excusing the driver and saying it was a “close call” I am absolutely fuming and disgusted at the sentencing.”

However, under the road.cc report, reader alexuk thought that the sentence was harsh on the cyclist but ultimately fair, writing: “May sound harsh, but seems appropriate given the evidence. He didn't see the cyclist hauling ass towards him, if he did, it seems likely he wouldn't have pulled out; clearly intention to do harm could not be proven. 

“If he pulled out having seen the cyclist, then dangerous all-day. I'm glad the driver is off the road for the next 3yrs and has to spend the next two years on best behaviour with mandated rehab + 300hrs unpaid.

“Sometimes accidents happen. I hope the rider manages to find himself again and the driver makes a positive change to his life.”

09 October 2024, 10:26
Some totally out of context Armenian Prime Minister Pashinyan cycling in rainy Moscow.

Make of this what you will now...

"There is a very good bicycle path along the Moskva River, and we rode our bikes today," Pashinyanm who travelled to Moscow  to participate in the meeting of the CIS Heads of State Council, said.

09 October 2024, 10:11
Video shows Tadej Pogačar take the lead in discussing with organisers to call off Italian classic Tre Valli Varesine amidst heavy thunderstorm and flooding
09 October 2024, 09:10
Some gorgeous Tommasinis to commemorate the passing of Italian bike-building icon Irio Tommasini (ft. road.cc’s Stay Awesome stickers)

In case you missed it, bike-building maestro and just simply a legend in the annals of the cycling world, Irio Tommasini passed away yesterday, aged 91.

And what better way to celebrate the man’s work than road.cc reader and a Tommasini tifoso Mike Curtis’ cave of the beautiful, gorgeous Tommasini bikes. He wrote: “Goodnight, wonderful Signor Irio; sleep well. Thank you for all your wonderful work, and rest assured that your memory will live on forever thanks to your wonderful creations… It was an honour to have met you.”

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

A post shared by Mike Curtis (@curdins)

PS. Thanks for keeping our Stay Awesome stickers in your workshop, Mike!

09 October 2024, 14:26

Adwitiya joined road.cc in 2023 as a news writer after graduating with a masters in journalism from Cardiff University. His dissertation focused on active travel, which soon threw him into the deep end of covering everything related to the two-wheeled tool, and now cycling is as big a part of his life as guitars and football. He has previously covered local and national politics for Voice Wales, and also likes to writes about science, tech and the environment, if he can find the time. Living right next to the Taff trail in the Welsh capital, you can find him trying to tackle the brutal climbs in the valleys.

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52 comments

Avatar
alexuk replied to Rendel Harris | 1 month ago
0 likes

Possibly quoted due to a need to present a balanced report of comments and public opinion.

I probably cycle more mileage than most people on this site. I'm just not a left-wing, ignorant young person. The case was sad, but you have to understand how law works. Thankfully courts work on facts, not feelings and the lynch-mob on this site aren't working in the court. The guy in the car was a d**k, clearly, but the driver hasn't exactly got off scott-free. Is jailing him the best thing for the public? probably not. Most of London is on one kind of drugs or another. Its amazing how much drugs you can smell when cycling through urban and rural towns these days, so its hard for the court to say it was the drugs that caused him to pull out, not see the cyclist and cause the crash. Sometimes people just make mistakes when driving and he made one. Should his life be forever-ruined as a result of one mistake? Justice is what the courts dish out, not lynching. Thankfully the cyclist survived, which is the most important.

Avatar
hawkinspeter replied to alexuk | 1 month ago
15 likes

alexuk wrote:

Possibly quoted due to a need to present a balanced report of comments and public opinion.

I probably cycle more mileage than most people on this site. I'm just not a left-wing, ignorant young person. The case was sad, but you have to understand how law works. Thankfully courts work on facts, not feelings and the lynch-mob on this site aren't working in the court. The guy in the car was a d**k, clearly, but the driver hasn't exactly got off scott-free. Is jailing him the best thing for the public? probably not. Most of London is on one kind of drugs or another. Its amazing how much drugs you can smell when cycling through urban and rural towns these days, so its hard for the court to say it was the drugs that caused him to pull out, not see the cyclist and cause the crash. Sometimes people just make mistakes when driving and he made one. Should his life be forever-ruined as a result of one mistake? Justice is what the courts dish out, not lynching. Thankfully the cyclist survived, which is the most important.

Should a cyclist's life be forever-ruined as a result of one driver's mistake? Is it justice to allow the driver to continue making driving mistakes and possibly ruin other people's lives?

To give a bit of perspective to this issue, consider that Just Stop Oil had activists jailed for five years simply for planning on delaying drivers on the M25. Should their lives be ruined for a peaceful demonstration to attempt to get the then government to simply do what the current government has now done in terms of not opening new coal mines or drilling new oil fields?

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alexuk replied to hawkinspeter | 1 month ago
0 likes

Did those anarchits intentionally plan do something? Yes they did. Easy for a court to convict. Facts, not feelings. The driver did not intentionally set out to hurt the cyclist at any point and you cant prove he did. He did something that 90% of motorists would do, regardless of drugs, sadly. I don't make the law. Just seems so little of you understand it.

Just Stop Oil are hyprochrits. They should protest in asia and stop preaching to the choir.

Avatar
Mr Anderson replied to alexuk | 1 month ago
11 likes

Quote "He did something that 90% of motorists would do"

IS that a FACT?

Avatar
hawkinspeter replied to alexuk | 1 month ago
10 likes

alexuk wrote:

Did those anarchits intentionally plan do something? Yes they did. Easy for a court to convict. Facts, not feelings. The driver did not intentionally set out to hurt the cyclist at any point and you cant prove he did. He did something that 90% of motorists would do, regardless of drugs, sadly. I don't make the law. Just seems so little of you understand it.

Just Stop Oil are hyprochrits. They should protest in asia and stop preaching to the choir.

The facts of the matter are that violent protesters (e.g. the rabid right wing that were attacking police and aiming to kill asylum seekers) garner a shorter sentence than peaceful protesters. It's also notable how the court prevented the JSO defendants from using our climate emergency as a defense - that is not justice at work, but money from Big Oil at work.

I think you're confused about how the legal system works (or doesn't as the case may be). Careless/dangerous driving is based upon the driver's actions rather than intention i.e. that their driving falls far below the level of a careful and competent driver. Whether the driver intends their driving to be harmful to others or not is irrelevant to the offence.

Isn't it funny how protestors are always protesting in the wrong place, or in the wrong fashion or not quite how observers wish that they'd protest? It's almost as though oil apologists are pointing somewhere else and stating "well, they're also to blame so why should we not profit from selling new off-shore drilling licenses?"

By the way, do you have an impediment that causes you to write in the way that you do?

Avatar
brooksby replied to alexuk | 1 month ago
7 likes

alexuk wrote:

Did those anarchits intentionally plan do something? Yes they did. Easy for a court to convict. Facts, not feelings. The driver did not intentionally set out to hurt the cyclist at any point and you cant prove he did. He did something that 90% of motorists would do, regardless of drugs, sadly. I don't make the law. Just seems so little of you understand it.

Just Stop Oil are hyprochrits. They should protest in asia and stop preaching to the choir.

I didn't know that they were anarchists?  Citation, please.

Anyhoo - I think Peter's complaint is that they were jailed for planning to do something that they didn't actually do.

Avatar
hawkinspeter replied to brooksby | 1 month ago
7 likes

brooksby wrote:

I didn't know that they were anarchists?  Citation, please.

Anyhoo - I think Peter's complaint is that they were jailed for planning to do something that they didn't actually do.

I think there's a distinction between anarchists who believe that there should not be an "authority" and activists who believe (and have very strong evidence for) that the authorities are controlled by oil corporations who aim to make profit from the destruction of our habitats i.e. authorities that serve the interests of the 1% rather than everyone else.

Some of the protests went ahead, but the jail terms were for the planning of the disruption.

More info available here: https://edition.cnn.com/2024/09/14/climate/uk-climate-protests-policing-laws-prison-intl/index.html

Avatar
brooksby replied to hawkinspeter | 1 month ago
5 likes

hawkinspeter wrote:

I think there's a distinction between anarchists who believe that there should not be an "authority" and activists who believe (and have very strong evidence for) that the authorities are controlled by oil corporations who aim to make profit from the destruction of our habitats i.e. authorities that serve the interests of the 1% rather than everyone else.

That was my point, Peter, but you've put it better  4

Avatar
Backladder replied to brooksby | 1 month ago
3 likes

brooksby wrote:

alexuk wrote:

Did those anarchits intentionally plan do something? Yes they did. Easy for a court to convict. Facts, not feelings. The driver did not intentionally set out to hurt the cyclist at any point and you cant prove he did. He did something that 90% of motorists would do, regardless of drugs, sadly. I don't make the law. Just seems so little of you understand it.

Just Stop Oil are hyprochrits. They should protest in asia and stop preaching to the choir.

I didn't know that they were anarchists?  Citation, please.

Anyhoo - I think Peter's complaint is that they were jailed for planning to do something that they didn't actually do.

no you misread  the post, they are anarchits who are against the writing of short notes!

Avatar
Mr Anderson replied to alexuk | 1 month ago
10 likes

Quote "Thankfully courts work on facts" and "Most of London is on one kind of drugs or another"

Can you please point me to the FACT that 50%+ of the inhabitants of London are on these drugs?

Avatar
eburtthebike replied to Mr Anderson | 1 month ago
9 likes

Mr Anderson wrote:

Quote "Thankfully courts work on facts" and "Most of London is on one kind of drugs or another"

Can you please point me to the FACT that 50%+ of the inhabitants of London are on these drugs?

He is, therefore everyone is: impeccable logic.

Avatar
Hirsute replied to alexuk | 1 month ago
12 likes

You dismissed it as an accident.

You still don't get it.

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ubercurmudgeon replied to alexuk | 1 month ago
13 likes

alexuk wrote:

I'm just not a left-wing, ignorant young person.

I wasn't aware our ages were displayed next to our comments. Nor is calling for tougher sentencing for criminals, especially drug users, a particularly left-wing trait. As for the other adjective, there's only one person here so far making statements borne out of ignorance, and it's the "I'm the voice of the silent majority" (aka I repeat third-hand Daily Mail talking points) kind which is most common among those of the right-wing persuasion.

Avatar
Rendel Harris replied to alexuk | 1 month ago
9 likes

alexuk wrote:

I probably cycle more mileage than most people on this site. I'm just not a left-wing, ignorant young person. The case was sad, but you have to understand how law works. 

I cycled about 12,000 km last year, I'm definitely not young, I hope with a substantial amount of education up to postgraduate level and 30 years of experience as a volunteer, teacher, writer and editor (including substantial involvement in all those spheres with various aspects of the law and judiciary) I'm not entirely ignorant either. I am left-wing, it's true. I don't think any of the above should make my opinion on this case more valuable than anybody else's, I'm not sure why you think your self-declared "more mileage than most people on this site" (how on earth would you know what mileage most people on this site do?), age and purported lack of ignorance would make your opinion more valuable.

I think it's you who probably needs to understand how the law works. The Sentencing Council defines Category A culpability in cases of causing serious injury by careless driving as "just below threshold for dangerous driving and/or includes extreme example of a culpability B factor."  One of the culpability B factors is "Unsafe manoeuvre or positioning"; quite clearly overtaking straight into the face of an oncoming cyclist so that you hit them head on is an extreme example of an unsafe manoeuvre or positioning. So therefore the culpability in this case is clearly Category A. We then move onto the "Harm" category: the highest level of harm (1) is:

  • Particularly grave and/or life-threatening injury caused
  • Injury results in physical or psychological harm resulting in lifelong dependency on third party care or medical treatment
  • Offence results in a permanent, irreversible injury or condition which has a substantial and long term effect on the victim’s ability to carry out normal day to day activities or on their ability to work

Clearly categories one and three apply to the injuries caused to the victim.

Therefore we have a case with the highest level of culpability (A) and the highest level of harm (1). The Sentencing Council recommends a starting point of one year's custody for an A1 offence. 

 

Avatar
SimoninSpalding replied to Rendel Harris | 1 month ago
13 likes

Oh [insert chosen deity/ imaginary friend], someone's set Rendel off with his facts and reasoned arguments again!

When will he learn that's not how the internet works. 🙄

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NotNigel replied to alexuk | 1 month ago
14 likes

'Thankfully courts work on facts, not feelings'

Except when it comes down to the judge's sentencing in this case and many others.

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NotNigel replied to NotNigel | 1 month ago
4 likes

Maybe courtrooms could actually make good use of Artificial Intelligence...take all the human emotional elements away from the jury and and sentencing.

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lesterama replied to NotNigel | 1 month ago
9 likes

Wouldn't machine learning be partially based on all the previous flawed court decisions, though?

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bensynnock replied to lesterama | 1 month ago
0 likes

If it based its sentencing decisions on the recidivism rate of people with similar sentences it wouldn't send anybody to prison.

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hawkinspeter replied to NotNigel | 1 month ago
6 likes

NotNigel wrote:

Maybe courtrooms could actually make good use of Artificial Intelligence...take all the human emotional elements away from the jury and and sentencing.

You cannot (or at least should not) allow decision making by an entity that has no accountability.

Practically, there's the huge issue that due to training sets, almost every A.I./LLM seems to have racism encoded.

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chrisonabike replied to alexuk | 1 month ago
8 likes

(Only because they clearly want the attention - so now they've had it can we ignore them again) - eyes down:

Taking on the room: check!
"Frothing": check!
Cycles faster / further than most: check!  (but simultaneously other Bad Cyclists are clearly "going to fast" even when likely below speed limit e.g. "cyclist hauling ass"...)
Everyone else (wrong) is left-wing*: check!
People just need to get on with each other (whether driving or cycling): check!
Being punished for a driving offense is "having your life ruined" and those who wish for decent penalties are a "lynch mob": check!

Fool House!  (Perhaps a new one though).

* TBF many (not all) posting here don't favour the Tories and quite a few would not fit happily in (any electable version of) the Labour party either.  And then there are the "red" squirrel-fanciers.

Avatar
Clem Fandango replied to chrisonabike | 1 month ago
7 likes

I wonder what his views are on "established reds"? 

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