"E-Bikes are bicycles, not motorbikes": EU Court rules e-bikes as not capable of causing "damage comparable to motorcycles"; Chris Froome’s new bike with disc brakes; £32k karma for not restoring cycle path; Penny-farthing stunts + more on the live blog

chrisonatrike wrote:

That horse may be well and truly volted by now

Quality.

hawkinspeter wrote:

The simplest and easiest solution is for police to rock up to a known hang-out for riders and then seize all the non-compliant vehicles along with whoever is riding them. That way, they have the culprit and the evidence in one easy visit and they can probably buy their dinner at the same time too.

Agreed, I did say in my OP "the police in London could wipe out the scourge almost immediately just by spending a few minutes outside popular collection points for Deliveroo etc". Not sure about letting them buy their dinner though, lots of our local cops look as if even I could outsprint them and the only time I see them out of their cars is when they are popping into Costa or the M&S local to pick up a few hundred more calories.

Of course the problem could also be solved if everyone who uses Deliveroo decided to boycott them until they had decent employment policies, proper riding instruction and regular checks on employee bikes for safety and legality purposes, but I've had a look at my calendar and the 12th of never doesn't seem to be coming along any time soon…

Rendel Harris wrote:

Agreed, I did say in my OP "the police in London could wipe out the scourge almost immediately just by spending a few minutes outside popular collection points for Deliveroo etc". Not sure about letting them buy their dinner though, lots of our local cops look as if even I could outsprint them and the only time I see them out of their cars is when they are popping into Costa or the M&S local to pick up a few hundred more calories.

Of course the problem could also be solved if everyone who uses Deliveroo decided to boycott them until they had decent employment policies, proper riding instruction and regular checks on employee bikes for safety and legality purposes, but I've had a look at my calendar and the 12th of never doesn't seem to be coming along any time soon…

To be honest, I'm unconcerned about Deliveroo riders using electric motorbikes as it's better than them using ICE powered motorbikes and they tend to be a lot lighter - most of them look like a MTB with batteries duck-taped into the frame triangle. I don't doubt that some of them cause problems with their interpretations of road rules, but at least they're not in a tonne of metal causing problems.

However, I can't recall every using Deliveroo, so my boycotting powers are diminished. I don't see much point to them in cities as the take-away places aren't usually more than a ten minute walk away.

hawkinspeter wrote:

To be honest, I'm unconcerned about Deliveroo riders using electric motorbikes as it's better than them using ICE powered motorbikes and they tend to be a lot lighter - most of them look like a MTB with batteries duck-taped into the frame triangle. I don't doubt that some of them cause problems with their interpretations of road rules, but at least they're not in a tonne of metal causing problems.

Agree to an extent, but some of the Deliveroo folks round my area are using ebikes that can do 45+ mph, 25mph over the limit of most of the local roads, usually without/with minimal lighting after dark, they do cause plenty of problems.

hawkinspeter wrote:

However, I can't recall every using Deliveroo, so my boycotting powers are diminished. I don't see much point to them in cities as the take-away places aren't usually more than a ten minute walk away.

Same here, I did use them to send my mother a few takeaways during the pandemic when she had to isolate but I don't need 'em - and in fact am pretty disgusted by the way they're often used in my south London neck of the woods, people getting them to deliver coffee and bagels on Sunday morning as if they ain't got legs.

hawkinspeter wrote:

However, I can't recall every using Deliveroo, so my boycotting powers are diminished. I don't see much point to them in cities as the take-away places aren't usually more than a ten minute walk away.

Unfortunately, a five minute walk is too much for some people.
One one occasion, as I started unloading the shopping, from my car, my neighbour drove away and, before I'd finished, he returned with his son, who he'd picked up from football practice.
Total journey time was less than 5 minutes, but he still chose to drive.

belugabob wrote:

hawkinspeter wrote:

However, I can't recall every using Deliveroo, so my boycotting powers are diminished. I don't see much point to them in cities as the take-away places aren't usually more than a ten minute walk away.

Unfortunately, a five minute walk is too much for some people. One one occasion, as I started unloading the shopping, from my car, my neighbour drove away and, before I'd finished, he returned with his son, who he'd picked up from football practice. Total journey time was less than 5 minutes, but he still chose to drive.

Is it time for Yorkshire boasting about our observations of blebish Britains, then? Here's mine:

A neighbour of smokey-boozy aspect and the smell to prove it would get in his jallopy to travel 300 yards around the end of the village green to get to the wee shop that was 100 yards from his gate as a crow shopping for pork scratchings might fly. (I measured the distances in my long-stride walking paces, just to be annoying). He was going to the shop each day for his fag and Daily Hate Mail.

He died aged 56 from lung cancer. Very sad for those that loved him .... but he cared more for nico-drug and car "convenience" to bother about disappointing others in various ways.

Cars kill in more ways than one. Who else had an increment or two added to their chance of getting a body rot from the fellow's exhaust fumes, both fag and car?

Where can such be used - only on the roads? And with what required safety gear, insurance, registration etc?

But I thought the "Low Power Moped" class was repalced in 2015 or so by the "EU class L1e-A".

Was it not? Or is this another example of our useless government sitting on its butt?

"250W Low power moped" is a new sub-class created in 2019 under UK law. It is different to the "low power moped" class, as power is limited to 250W and speed restricted to 15.5mph.

You need to pay £55 to get it certified with a single vehicle approval. But if you do that, then it's classed as a bicycle, exactly the same as any other EAPC, but you don't have to pedal as full throttle assistance can be used up to 16mph.

This should provide clarity. I'm not sure that it does.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/electrically-assisted-pedal-c...

IanMK wrote:

This should provide clarity. I'm not sure that it does. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/electrically-assisted-pedal-c...

That's a press release from 2015. Some of it still holds true. 
The details for 250W LPM are a more recent development. If you look at this document (scroll right to near the end, in the glossary section) you will see references to 250W LPM.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/motorcycle-single-vehicle-app...

I've no doubt that the majority of throttle only e-bikes are illegal motorcycles. But it is possible to have a legal throttle only e-bike in the UK.

Rendel Harris wrote:

This is absolutely peak "as a cyclist myself": driver of an uberwankpanzer gets out and confronts cyclist, telling him "Don't fucken look at me" and justifying his ire by explaining "I cycle every single day of ma life!" Truly bizarre.

https://twitter.com/AlanMyles8/status/1712567297821598062

It's not typical "as a cyclist myself" though as, judging my his attire, he probably does cycle (although maybe off-road?) as opposed to just meaning I went to Center Parcs once.

Steve K wrote:

It's not typical "as a cyclist myself" though as, judging my his attire, he probably does cycle (although maybe off-road?) as opposed to just meaning I went to Center Parcs once.

I was thinking spin class at the gym maybe? But yes, probably one of those who puts his MTB on the back of the wankpanzer and drives long distances to ride through forests, cursing all the pesky road cyclists who get in his way.

Knickerbockers - Glorious.

Why is the Man from the Micropenis Mobile dressed up like Sir Hilary Bray from a 1969 Bond film?

Fancy dress party?

Rendel Harris wrote:

This is absolutely peak "as a cyclist myself": driver of an uberwankpanzer gets out and confronts cyclist, telling him "Don't fucken look at me" and justifying his ire by explaining "I cycle every single day of ma life!" Truly bizarre.

https://twitter.com/AlanMyles8/status/1712567297821598062

Ah yes Glasgow, where making eye contact with a stranger results in mortal combat. Whaes like us.

Can I have the ;TLDR on that one?  I was watching with the sound off and I cannot for the life of me understand what the cyclist could have done to trigger the motorist...  They seemed to spend the entire video clip in two deparate lanes of the road/.

brooksby wrote:

Can I have the ;TLDR on that one?  I was watching with the sound off and I cannot for the life of me understand what the cyclist could have done to trigger the motorist...  They seemed to spend the entire video clip in two deparate lanes of the road/.

The cyclist was just as bemused as you, apparently he glanced back to check the position of the driver before pulling off and the driver seems to have decided that he was giving him the eye for encroaching on the ASZ. Word for word "Don't fucken look at me ya idiot. Yer staring at me 'cos I'm sitting here and it's dark right, and you're staring at me as if I've done something wrong, I cycle every single day of my life, stop being a knob."

Rendel Harris wrote:

brooksby wrote:

Can I have the ;TLDR on that one?  I was watching with the sound off and I cannot for the life of me understand what the cyclist could have done to trigger the motorist...  They seemed to spend the entire video clip in two deparate lanes of the road/.

The cyclist was just as bemused as you, apparently he glanced back to check the position of the driver before pulling off and the driver seems to have decided that he was giving him the eye for encroaching on the ASZ. Word for word "Don't fucken look at me ya idiot. Yer staring at me 'cos I'm sitting here and it's dark right, and you're staring at me as if I've done something wrong, I cycle every single day of my life, stop being a knob."

I think he fell into something like the "what you lookin' at?" gotcha:

• answer a) "I'm lookin' at you" --> physical attack
• answer b) "Nothing" --> "oh, you think I'm nothing, do you?" --> physical attack

GMBasix wrote:

I think he fell into something like the "what you lookin' at?" gotcha:

• answer a) "I'm lookin' at you" --> physical attack
• answer b) "Nothing" --> "oh, you think I'm nothing, do you?" --> physical attack

The only way which might work is a confident side-step. Cheerfully saying "A man who needs a hug!" and then just calmly ignoring them while the small bit of not-yet-fully-primed-for-conflict brain tries to catch up and make sense of that is something I once observed having success.

Rendel Harris wrote:

brooksby wrote:

Can I have the ;TLDR on that one?  I was watching with the sound off and I cannot for the life of me understand what the cyclist could have done to trigger the motorist...  They seemed to spend the entire video clip in two deparate lanes of the road/.

The cyclist was just as bemused as you, apparently he glanced back to check the position of the driver before pulling off and the driver seems to have decided that he was giving him the eye for encroaching on the ASZ. Word for word "Don't fucken look at me ya idiot. Yer staring at me 'cos I'm sitting here and it's dark right, and you're staring at me as if I've done something wrong, I cycle every single day of my life, stop being a knob."

Thanks, Rendel.

Some people, eh...?

Good point. Should be categorised relative to the force of impact of its mass at the top speed it could potentially attain.

"" Moreover, that ‘boost’ function could be activated only after the use of muscular power (by pedalling, by walking with the bicycle or by pushing it)""

After all, motorised vehicles can also only attain their speeds after use of muscular power - from the arm/hand required to switch the thing on...