Not Near Miss of the Day: How to safely overtake cyclists... while driving a tank; "It was about protecting Sepp": End of Jumbo-Visma civil war as Vingegaard and Roglič work for Kuss (+ Remco wins); Huge sinkhole swallows bike lane + more on the live blog

quiff wrote:

Moments of maddening motornormativity #3,426: on the school run, a driver has parked his large van diagonally - front end in the road, rear end taking up most of the pavement. The open rear door is taking up the rest of the pavement. He sees us approaching and makes a show of closing the door for us. We pass, and he mutters under his breath "well, say thank you then".

I had a driver do that to me when I was crossing a zebra and they hadn't expected me to which involved them having to slam on their brakes.

"Why yes, thank you for not murdering me"

hawkinspeter wrote:

quiff wrote:

Moments of maddening motornormativity #3,426: on the school run, a driver has parked his large van diagonally - front end in the road, rear end taking up most of the pavement. The open rear door is taking up the rest of the pavement. He sees us approaching and makes a show of closing the door for us. We pass, and he mutters under his breath "well, say thank you then".

I had a driver do that to me when I was crossing a zebra and they hadn't expected me to which involved them having to slam on their brakes.

"Why yes, thank you for not murdering me"

I made a decision a long time ago not to thank drivers for stopping if I'm crossing at a zebra.  I mean, that's what they're supposed to do!  I don't expect a pedestrian to thank me for stopping at one if I'm on wheels, either.

brooksby wrote:

I made a decision a long time ago not to thank drivers for stopping if I'm crossing at a zebra.  I mean, that's what they're supposed to do!  I don't expect a pedestrian to thank me for stopping at one if I'm on wheels, either.

I can see both sides of the argument on that one, I tend to come down in favour of saying thank you; after all, the waiter is supposed to bring me my dinner, the nurse is supposed to give me my flu shot, the bin man is supposed to empty my bins, I still say thank you to them. I actually even wave thank you on pelican crossings, I don't regard it as "thank you for not killing me/not breaking the law" but just in acknowledgement that they have had a little time added to their journey (albeit mandatorily) for my convenience.

Like you, I certainly don't expect thanks for stopping at a zebra, but when I do get it it does just brighten the day up a little bit at no cost to the person saying thank you, so...

I now draw the line at thanking dog walkers for restraining their hounds from jumping up at me as I ride past on the local shared use path... had a "thanks would have been nice" the other day but FFS it's the least they could do.

Hmm... I'm with you in practice (enlightened self-interest - human interactions especially when cheerful interactions make me happier).  However surely a closer analogy would be thanking the waiter for not mistiming and pouring your soup all over you?

My rule of thumb is, the ones who approach at a sensible speed and slow in anticipation of me crossing a zebra get a little wave. The ones who screech to a last minute stop and look irritated for having to do so just get a raised eyebrow. I figure pelicans add an extra step between pedestrian and driver, so it's never occurred to me to do anything. [EDIT: in fact, perhaps most drivers should be thanking pedestrians at pelicans - we've had to wait for the convenience of [n] drivers before the lights change.] 

Another unbelievable incident seen yesterday: 4 or 5 cars are queuing behind a bus at a bus stop in a 20 zone. The queue straddles a zebra crossing. Driver at back of queue sees there is no oncoming traffic, accelerates at speed past the queue and bus, on wrong side of road through zebra crossing and past a junction.      

Rendel Harris wrote:

I can see both sides of the argument on that one, I tend to come down in favour of saying thank you; after all, the waiter is supposed to bring me my dinner, the nurse is supposed to give me my flu shot, the bin man is supposed to empty my bins, I still say thank you to them. I actually even wave thank you on pelican crossings, I don't regard it as "thank you for not killing me/not breaking the law" but just in acknowledgement that they have had a little time added to their journey (albeit mandatorily) for my convenience.

Like you, I certainly don't expect thanks for stopping at a zebra, but when I do get it it does just brighten the day up a little bit at no cost to the person saying thank you, so...

For me, it boils down to whether someone is performing a service for me, such as a waiter, nurse, bin person etc. or whether someone is simply following the mandatory rules. If a driver stops before someone has started crossing a zebra and politely waves them across, then that would be worthy of a thanks, but otherwise just stopping at a zebra or red light would be the minimum expected behaviour - not worthy of a thanks.

brooksby wrote:

I made a decision a long time ago not to thank drivers for stopping if I'm crossing at a zebra.  I mean, that's what they're supposed to do!  I don't expect a pedestrian to thank me for stopping at one if I'm on wheels, either.

Funnily enough, I've had pedestrians thank me for stopping at the zebra just before the suspension bridge (Leigh Woods side). It might have something to do with me going quite quickly and having to slam on the brakes to stop in time. Mind you, I've also had pedestrians elsewhere apologise for them causing me to stop at a zebra on a bike.

I do thank drivers if they're courteous such as moving to allow more space for filtering (an especially noble act as it involves them being aware of filtering traffic behind them and how their road position isn't helpful) or deliberately letting me out of a turning etc.

hawkinspeter wrote:

Funnily enough, I've had pedestrians thank me for stopping at the zebra just before the suspension bridge (Leigh Woods side). It might have something to do with me going quite quickly and having to slam on the brakes to stop in time. Mind you, I've also had pedestrians elsewhere apologise for them causing me to stop at a zebra on a bike.

How many pedestrians have sworn at you for not stopping for them on the raised traffic table which isn't a crossing, on the other side of the Suspension Bridge?  In my case, quite a few...

brooksby wrote:

How many pedestrians have sworn at you for not stopping for them on the raised traffic table which isn't a crossing, on the other side of the Suspension Bridge?  In my case, quite a few...

No-one has, but I think all the times I've gone across that, there's been significant vehicle traffic, so I haven't been the main obstacle to them. Thinking about it, they should make that a zebra or pelican as there's paths leading to and from it.

hawkinspeter wrote:

brooksby wrote:

How many pedestrians have sworn at you for not stopping for them on the raised traffic table which isn't a crossing, on the other side of the Suspension Bridge?  In my case, quite a few...

No-one has, but I think all the times I've gone across that, there's been significant vehicle traffic, so I haven't been the main obstacle to them. Thinking about it, they should make that a zebra or pelican as there's paths leading to and from it.

More than that, it has textured paving at each end of the table which tells visually impaired people that it is a crossing...

See this quite a lot on raised "crossings" in Hyde Park - as far as I can tell, they don't afford pedestrians priority to cross, but I have had a few people screech to a halt in front of me for them. 

E.g. https://goo.gl/maps/RZjhtbMyv9JrH3PD9

Edit: just spotted on Streetview there are "raised pedestrian crossing" warning signs. I'm now a bit confused. Do pedestrians in fact have priority here after all? The road markings just suggest speed hump, not crossing.

https://goo.gl/maps/BgjyrU4931R6bSNY7

Thanks!

I think that's exactly how the JV PR team would like to spin it too...

As mentioned, they could have checked the pace for a few moments to allow Kuss to recollect himself and continued on collectively. 

Or more effectively. Let Roglic go away alone, leaving Landa to do the chasing, before hitting him towards the top, in a repeat of the Tourmalet stage.

However, the challenge here is not that Roglic and Vingegaard want to take the win from Kuss, its that neither want to finish on the third step of the podium. This is where the politics actually lie. 

Both want to be JV top dog. Jonas will feel he is superior, yet he's not beaten Rog before. Rog will feel he is every bit as good and only bad luck and alternative calendars have kept him from tour wins. 

In many ways, its a shame that Kuss is in the middle of this, as otherwise I think we'd be witnessing a brutal bit of inter-team rivalry. 

Well written, I agree completely!

Rendel Harris wrote:

I am possibly being naive here, but isn't it feasible that Jumbo Visma are playing a more subtle game than they are being given credit for

This is something that is being lost in all the emotional noise. With the level of investment and the prestige of the win there really isn't an enormous amount of room for "it would be nice if" sentiment in tactical decision-making. If JV somehow cocked up we'd all be hanging them out to dry as incompetent.

In the end we are not partial to the conversations behind closed doors and I think that putting words into riders' and directors' mouths, analysing actions and even body language during and after the stage, we distant observers are just making an huge amount of noise on supposition and precious little evidence.

Like the 3 ex-pro riders in the TV studio, I don't like to see the Roglic & Vingegaard ride away from Kuss in the red jersey on a crucial stage when the lead is not at risk. But I can't bring myself to get worked up about it. I'm just an ordinary cyclist, sat at home watching a video. I cannot get that emotionally invested in the actions of a team of superstar riders that I won't ever meet on a hillside in Spain.

So I was right! Maybe…I suspect we won't know the whole truth of who was planning what and what the management ordered until the end of career autobiographies - if then.