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"The charge for speeding on a bicycle is pedalling furiously": Reaction to police shaming cyclists for ‘breaking the speed limit’; Vuelta riders' flight disruption woes as they reach hotel at 3AM with no food; Canyon disc of shame + more on the live blog

Cycling has gone nuts! After a crazy weekend at the Vuelta, a rest day for the riders but no rest day for Adwitiya as he kicks off this week’s live blog (and laments no more bank holidays until December)
Mon, Sep 04, 2023 09:48
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"The charge for speeding on a bicycle is pedalling furiously": Reaction to police shaming cyclists for ‘breaking the speed limit’; Vuelta riders' flight disruption woes as they reach hotel at 3AM with no food; Canyon disc of shame + more on the live blogPolice stop cyclists riding at 39mph in 30 zone (Devon and Cornwall Roads Policing Team/Twitter)
04 September 2023, 16:26
04 September 2023, 08:19
Police stop cyclists riding at 39mph in 30 zone (Devon and Cornwall Roads Policing Team/Twitter)
"The charge for speeding on a bicycle is called pedalling furiously": Reaction to police shaming cyclists for ‘breaking the speed limit’

Ah well, it's that time of the year again, the mandatory police force getting something so wrong about cyclists that we have no option left but to cover it.

This time, it's Devon and Cornwall Roads Policing Team, who wrote last evening: "Cyclists, please be mindful of your speeds and just how this will effect you in the event of a collision. This group today on Dartmoor observed travelling at near 40mph on a 30mph restricted road. All stopped and offered appropriate words of advice".

There's not much I can say about this post, other than reminding the roads policing team that the speed limit doesn't legally apply to cyclists, because there's no, once again, legal requirement for a speedometer on an piece of equipment not powered by a motor.

> Police stop cyclists riding at 39mph in 30mph zone despite speed limits not applying to bicycle riders

In fact, Rule 124 of the Highway Code sets limits for various vehicles, which MUST be complied with, and in which bicycles are not included.

Further, Rule 125 also says that "inappropriate speeds are also intimidating, deterring people from walking, cycling or riding horses", and drivers should reduce their speed when "sharing the road with pedestrians, particularly children, older adults or disabled people, cyclists and horse riders, horse drawn vehicles and motorcyclists".

Hmm, 22 months on, do we need another survey to tell us how many drivers are still unaware of the Highway Code?

> Over half of UK drivers still confused by Highway Code change, shows survey

And just as you'd expect, the tweet was the perfect hunting ground for the pitchfork-weilding anti-cycling brigade, lambasting not only the cyclists in the video — who at least in my opinion seem to be well-experienced and riding safely, and were most likely going down a descent — but all cyclists, bringing up discussions like license plates, speedometers, and harsher police action towards "speed-limit disobeying" cyclists.

Mike van Erp, the London cyclist and cycling safety advocate, better known by his alter-ego Cycling Mikey, caught whiff of this police post and replied to several tweets, saying that the cyclists weren't breaking the law and that "that’s probably quite reasonable when a bicycle weighs maybe 10kg and an average car 1.5-2 tonnes".

> "But what about…?": Police force gets blasted with anti-cycling bingo for launching plain clothes Operation Close Pass cycle patrols

More cyclists jumped in to criticise the police's tweet, remarking that this was doing nothing but "stoking more anti-cycling sentiments" and "giving motorists even more encouragement to treat anyone on a bicycle as a second class citizen".

Some quick kinetic energy calculations might be of help here...

Another person pointed out that the police, while themselves going past the speed limit in their cars, failed to use the blue lights and the two-tone siren.

Incidentally, two weeks ago, Devon and Cornwall Roads Policing Team were also clamping down on speeding drivers, catching a driver speeding at 61mph in a 30mph zone, just a few feet away from a child cyclist, with the police confirming that a prosecution will take place.

> Driver caught speeding past child cyclist at an "eye-watering" 61mph in a 30mph zone outside school

The team also said that it identifying 280 other instances of motorists speeding or using mobile phones in one hour.

Adrian Leisk, Head of Road Safety at Devon & Cornwall Police, said: "Our South Devon team identifying, yet again, that speeding drivers in Torbay are not expecting to be held to account."

04 September 2023, 15:09
The police responds: "Riders must not cycle in a dangerous, careless or inconsiderate manner"

The force has spoken, folks. After the whirlwind caused by a social media post by Devon and Cornwall Roads Policing Team about criticising cyclists for not adherring to the speed limit, when it doesn't apply to them, was picked and ripped apart, they have responded to our request for a comment.

A Devon & Cornwall Police spokesperson told road.cc:

"Legislation does not require cyclists to adhere to the speed limit, although riders must not cycle in a dangerous, careless or inconsiderate manner.

"Our officers are always mindful of road safety. As part of this, we ask cyclists to consider the impact the speed at which they are travelling could have on themselves - and those around them - in the event of a collision. This includes whether they would be able to sufficiently slow down or stop quickly enough should a hazard present itself, especially in built-up areas.

"On this occasion, road safety advice was given to a group of cyclists and no offences were recorded.

"This engagement - which carried a road safety, not speed enforcement, message - was received positively by the group. The speed limit was provided to give context in terms of what other road users would be expected to adhere to."

Hmm, fair play, if no offences were recorded and the message was received allegedly received positively by the group. But that makes one wonder, was the social media post just a poorly worded misadventure into the cyclists' speed-limit policing territory, or was that a genuine mistake by the team unaware of the Highway Code.

> "The charge for speeding on a bicycle is called pedalling furiously": Reaction to police shaming cyclists for ‘breaking the speed limit’

Either way, here's some reaction from the road.cc readers:

IanMK: "Educate and inform," Totally agree. Why not start with drivers? In fact, why not start with the drivers that respond incorrectly to your twitter feed? If they don't know this section of the highway code I suspect they'll be equally ignorant on other parts of it - like protecting vulnerable road users.

levestane: A bicycle can only decelerate at about half the rate of a typical car [somewhere in Bicycle Science]. There are quite a few hazards here (driveways, pedestrian crossing, junctions, poor visibility...). I'd probably be going slower, but that's just me.

Legin: Not unreasonable by the Police there; just becasue you are not breaking the law doesn't mean you should go do it.
Hopefully the conversation went, "I know the speed limit doesn't apply to you but don't be a ****ing bunch of ****holes as you know riding like this will wind the residents and other road users up; plus it may earn you a much more serious injury if you crash. Thank you and enjoy your ride." 

IanMSpencer: Myself, happy to exceed speed limits on a bike, typically on a downhill into a village where the speed limit is away from the built up area, but cyclists should cycle at a speed they can stop in, be it junctions, bends or other obstructions, so advice about excess speed in a built up area is appropriate.
Strangely, one place I seek to exceed the speed limit for my own safety is in a 20mph, yet over 20 is not sufficient for motorists to get frustrated and "need" to overtake, mainly because many believe that 20 is a war on motorists therefore does not apply (which also there excuses overtaking into oncoming traffic, and past obstructions and close passing... and holding up the cyclists you've passed).

EddyBerckx: Tbh I got no problems with police giving them friendly words of advice - without threats and so on, and WITHOUT putting it on social media where the predicable happens. Going into a village at speed is not cool regardless of what you drive / ride.
But honestly, cars never stick to 30mph when they have the choice of going faster and 37-39 is pretty much the minimum default speed they'll do without thinking.

NickSprink: I'll stick my neck out and say it may not be illegal to do 40 in a 30 zone on a bike, but is it sensible?  Would a pedestrian for example be expecting a bike to approach that fast?  By definition a 30 zone is a high risk zone, for all road users.
I believe that is was the police meant by offering "words of advice".

04 September 2023, 16:23
A much-needed buyer's guide for all: Best road bike upgrades under £50
Best road bike upgrades

Yes, you read that right. You don't have to spend the earth to make your bike lighter, more comfortable or more high-tech. Decent, even good, even great bike upgrades under £50 exist, and here are the best ones you can get your hands on!

> The best road bike upgrades under £50 2023 — get a better bike on a budget with these excellent components and accessories

04 September 2023, 15:55
Olav Kooij makes it two in two in the Tour of Britain as Jumbo-Visma seek to win it all

Double up, double down. Jumbo Visma on their way to the crown?

A relatively normal stage if you were to compare it with the Vuelta, with Jumbo-Visma going for hammer to the nail in the second stage in the northern part of Wales today.

Before the flag even dropped, there was an incident involving the highly rated Spanish GC rider Carlos Rodríguez, on the brink of signign a long-term contract with his team Ineos Grenadiers dropping to the ground, but stayed mostly unaffected.

On the shortest stage of the Tour (and on the hottest day of the year so far) starting and ending in Wrexham, with questions of whether the narrow streets would be safe enough for the bunch sprint finish (spoilers, it was thankfully), a quartet of riders decided to test their luck in the breakaway.

Movistar's Fernando Gaviria would be the next to go down, and the Columbian sprinter, after suffering a torrid day in Manchester, had some skin scrape off the palm of his right hand, and looked very uncomfortable in handling his bike.

Another big crash was to came later in the race, with just one categorised climb. A DSM rider touched shoulders with the race leader Olav Kooij, and then veered into the path of the yellow traffic cones on the edge of the road, going down hard in striking fashion, in what was a high-speed crash.

Wout van Aert was on leadout duty once again, and executed it to perfection, bringing Kooij home in the leaders' jersey and finishing third himself.

There was some confusion between the two Bora-Hansgrohe riders Danny van Poppel and Sam Bennett, finishing second and fourth respectively. Van Poppel looked as if he had no idea where Bennett, who was following his wheel was. He then ending up racing for the win himself, as the Irish rider was left disappointed, having backed out of going past his teammate at the last minute in the fears of getting squeezed into the barriers.

04 September 2023, 15:33
Latest in the world of "how to obey traffic signs" for cyclists

Maybe someday somewhere a police force would imagine this is how cyclists are supposed to be obeying the traffic laws and signs, and everyone will applaud as they go around enforcing.

Jokes aside, if you ever wondered about the traffic signs and what it meant for you as a cyclist, here's Simon's deep dive into the world of traffic semiotics from the weekend.

> Signs for cyclists – from ‘No cycling’ to ‘Except cycles’ here’s everything to look out for when riding on the road

04 September 2023, 14:48
Bus driver disciplined by employer for tailgating cyclist before calling police for rider "getting on his nerves"
Tailgating London bus driver (Twitter: Rendel Harris)

Bus operator Go-Ahead London apologised for the incident and said the driver had been identified and "dealt with formally, in accordance with our company's disciplinary procedure"...

> Bus driver disciplined by employer for tailgating cyclist before calling police for rider "getting on his nerves"

04 September 2023, 13:37
Not a YouGov poll, please

Not a poll on YouGov on speed-limit on cyclists, please!

Copying from the road.cc live blog now, are we YouGov?? Anyway, go vote on our poll!

04 September 2023, 12:23
2022 Wahoo Kickr Core vs Zwift Hub trainer patent
Wahoo and Zwift reach settlement in patent infringement dispute over "copycat" indoor trainer

Wahoo, after spending months in troubled waters, finally found some hope for its future in May this year, after a "significant" equity support from current and new investors, which brought a potential end to a troubling period for the brand, during which its credit rating was downgraded by leading agencies and 15 percent of its workforce was let go.

Now, Bicycle Retailer and Industry News has reported that it has come to a settlement agreement with Zwift over its legal action against the latter for alleged patent infringement over the Hub stationary trainer. 

In October last year, Wahoo claimed that Zwift's new Hub smart trainer infringes three patents related to the brand's Kickr Core static trainer, the cheapest direct drive option in the Wahoo range. The court case could has the potential to result in an injunction on the Zwift Hub, preventing its sale in certain areas.

> Anything look familiar? Wahoo sues Zwift and JetBlack claiming new Zwift Hub smart trainer is "copying the Kickr Core"

Wahoo had said: "By copying the KICKR CORE, Zwift has infringed three of Wahoo’s patents. By marketing a copy of Wahoo’s patent-protected device, Zwift has taken a shortcut that allows it to reap the benefit of Wahoo’s innovations, but without investing the time and money necessary to create Wahoo’s innovations.

"As a result, Wahoo is forced to file this action to stop Zwift’s infringement and to ensure Wahoo’s ability to continue its strong history of innovation."

Now, a court filing Thursday shows both sides are asking the court to dismiss Wahoo's patent suit against Zwift and any counterclaims, with each side to pay their own legal fees.

04 September 2023, 12:15
Blow a candle! Your favourite cycling website turns 15 🎈

If you hadn't noticed... It's our 15th birthday!

road.cc 15 years
04 September 2023, 12:02
The future is bright...

Nothing to see but young cyclists, serving some mega sprints yesterday at Deansgate, where yesterday's stage one ended.

And then, British Cycling riders meeting the stars of the future before signing on today in Wrexham.

 

04 September 2023, 11:53
"Technical, narrow and iffy road surface, what could go wrong?"

While the Tour of Britain kicked off yesterday, with another victory from the barnstorming Team Jumbo-Visma, Olav Kooij winning with a perfect leadout from Wout van Aert, who finished second himself, today's circuit in Wrexham has sent a few scratching their heads.

While the circuit is very narrow, with awkward barricade positioning and a mix of surfaces — a perfect recipe for disaster, do you think it allows for more technical intricacies and a refresh of team strategies than the same old, wide road bunch sprint finishes? 

04 September 2023, 11:28
Oh my, TalkTV

Remember Jeremy Vine's call for banning drivers from overtaking cyclists in cities from two weeks ago? Yep that's still going on TalkTV.

As Vine says, this was, indeed painful to listen to...

"I think bicycling is probably the worst thing for a big city. It causes more pollution, it causes more traffic chaos. Ban them"

Oh my, TalkTV... When will you learn?

04 September 2023, 11:18
04 September 2023, 10:59
Poll time: Should speed limits apply to cyclists?

We covered the  Devon and Cornwall Roads Policing Team's cautioning to cyclists apparently "breaking the speed limit", and reported on the reaction from cyclists and non-cyclists as well this morning.

> Police stop cyclists riding at 39mph in 30mph zone despite speed limits not applying to bicycle riders

And as you'd expect, it is a heated topic and one that's dividing a lot of people, even cyclists. So where do you stand on this? Should speed limits apply to cyclists or not?

Quiz Maker

04 September 2023, 10:40
Can someone help this person with their Canyon Aeroad "disc of shame"
Canyon Aeroad Facebook community

Some comments from Facebook: "Fling the dork disc to the moon", "Yes, should be kept on. Also make sure you email customer service for your free wheel reflectors you are entitled to."

Everybody taking the mickey out of the poor fella...

04 September 2023, 09:32
Vuelta flight disruption (Twitter: Jetse Bol)
"In times of weighing every gram and doing everything for recovery, this is not really a moral booster": Vuelta riders' flight disruption woes, reach hotel at 3AM with no food...

One normal day at the Vuelta, that's all I had asked for. Heck, it's not even a stage day!

But as this Vuelta seems to be going, even rest days give no respite. This time, it was a literal storm, which has stirred up the storm.

Riders, after the two days of back-breaking climbs in Valencia and Murcia, with Bora Hansgrohe's Lennard Kämna taking the win in Caravaca de la Cruz, were hoping for one day to sit back, relax, unwing, and regain energy and form for the coming two weeks. However, the weather had other ideas, with a torrential outpour accompanied by very, very frightening thunder and lightning, rained on their parade.

Burgos BH's Dutch rider Jetse Bol joked: "Due to bad weather, our plane could not land in Valladolid but in Madrid Barajas. It's nice to shorten the Vuelta by 11 stages"

RadioCycling reported that one of the two chartered flights from Murcia to Valladolid, where tomorrow's stage will begin from, had to land in Madrid due to heavy rain, wind and a lightning storm. They were then transported three hours by bus to Valladolid, not arriving into hotels until just before 3am, with riders from DSM Firmenich, Lidl-Trek, Arkéa, Alpecin-Deceuninck, Burgos-BH and Lotto-Dstny affected.

The first flight - which departed Murcia only 15 minutes before the second one - did arrive safely in Valladolid, but they too were greeted with torrential rain and a lightning storm.

Now, Lidl-Trek's flat-maestro, who came third in the fourth stage of this Vuelta, Edward Theuns has tweeted to express his disappointment at the state of situations, saying that they didn't get any food after arriving at the hotel, and in times of weighing every gram and doing everything for recovery, "this is not really a moral booster".

Petition for Netflix to start a series on the Vuelta?

To add to Theuns' woes, his team did have refreshments ready, but only at the wrong airport...

Come on, surely they could have got something from you know, Lidl?

And then this video from the press officer for Soudal Quick-Step. You know I'm just waiting for some Remco reaction for the blog...

04 September 2023, 09:53
Hasta mañana Vuelta, or maybe not?

Give them a bloody break!

Tough words from Matt Rendell below, but do you agree with him?

04 September 2023, 09:21
We all needed the rest day after that dramatic first week of Vuelta

Hate to remind anyone, but does anyone remember what happened on the Giro rest day?

04 September 2023, 08:49
Bus driver calls police as a cyclist "got on his nerves", (probably) life-saving helmet, refurbished Manchester velodrome... buckle up for the weekend roundup

While my weekend may or may not have been ruined by football, Vuelta a España gave us plenty of shockers and off-the-walls crazyness (those echelons!). But it wasn't just Vuelta, one bus driver from London decided to make headlines himself.

Oh, and with the newly refurbished velodrome, Manchester is looking to become the first 'European cycling capital' by 2024. How about that?

Tailgating London bus driver (Twitter: Rendel Harris)

> "I've got a cyclist here!": Bus driver who tailgated cyclist tries calling the police for "getting on his nerves"

Manchester velodrome, National Cycling Centre (image by chrsjc, CC BY-NC-ND 2.0)

> Manchester Velodrome, the home of British Cycling, reopens after 2 years and a £27m refurbishment

Thymen Arensman crash, Vuelta stage 7 2023 (Eurosport/GCN+)

> “If I was not wearing a helmet, I don't know if I would still be here”: Ineos rider Thymen Arensman thanks helmet after brutal crash ruling him out of Vuelta a España

Newmarket Road fatal collision sign, Norwich (credit: Peter Silburn)

> Councillors and campaigners unite in calling for 20mph speed limits and segregated cycle lanes after three cyclists die in a week in Norfolk

NMotD 874

> Near Miss of the Day 874: Aggressively honking van driver squeezes cyclist into the shrubs while passenger shouts "move over"

Adwitiya Pal

Adwitiya joined road.cc in 2023 as a news writer after graduating with a masters in journalism from Cardiff University. His dissertation focused on active travel, which soon threw him into the deep end of covering everything related to the two-wheeled tool, and now cycling is as big a part of his life as guitars and football. He has previously covered local and national politics for Voice Wales, and also likes to writes about science, tech and the environment, if he can find the time. Living right next to the Taff trail in the Welsh capital, you can find him trying to tackle the brutal climbs in the valleys.

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84 comments

Avatar
KDee replied to IanMSpencer | 1 year ago
0 likes

Yeah...I see that all the time 🙄

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David9694 replied to IanMSpencer | 1 year ago
0 likes

It's happened to me at least once - the open leading edge of the cage is ready to catch a spoke passing too close and pin it hard against the jockey wheel bolt - your precious derailleur, chain and hanger are all mashed clockwise until the wheel stops or something breaks. End of ride. 

Could not be a guard on the leading edge of the cage (call it a Goonguard), like this example has on the trailing side? 

Avatar
Cugel | 1 year ago
9 likes

Interesting to see many cyclists here and on that Twatter going full whatabout, with "cars do it and the police got it wrong ....". Whilst this is true it in no way excuses those stupid cyclists from riding at that speed in such a place.

They're stupid not because they seem unable to understand the danger to others but also seem oblivious to the dangers to themselves. One major point about speed limits is that they try to increase the amount of reaction time and braking time a vehicle controller will have in places where very proximate and sudden events that are wholly unpredictable can occur.

If such an event occurs, every cyclist in that group will crash at speed, with added impetus from the continuing gravity of the downhill. They'll also stand a far higher chance, as they crash, of collecting a serious injury from road furniture than they would if they fell off on a downhill country road.

Emergence of all sorts, from dozens or even hundreds of gates, driveways and similar along the way, is a high risk. Pedestrians but also cars lurching out into the road from their parking spot in front of a house. Loose cats and grannies. And so forth.

The police may have got the technical details wrong about the reason for the stop (speed limit breaking rather than riding furiously); and they may neglect to apprehend even more dangerous speeding motorists. But those cyclists were undeniably doing a stupid and dangerous thing. Save the 40mph + downhill speeds for the countryside, with a clear sight line and near zero liklihood of unpredicatable hazards ahead every 2 yards.

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IanMSpencer replied to Cugel | 1 year ago
7 likes

No, had a look. Cannot find these "many cyclists here" that you speak of.

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Benthic replied to Cugel | 1 year ago
1 like

Parliament doesn't agree with you.

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SimoninSpalding replied to Benthic | 1 year ago
2 likes

I rarely agree with parliament

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Benthic replied to SimoninSpalding | 1 year ago
0 likes

You don't need to. You just have to suck it up. 

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Cocovelo replied to Cugel | 1 year ago
3 likes

That's lovely and all but, as has been pointed out elsewhere, if you don't know how fast you are travelling then how do you know if you are travelling too fast?

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IanMSpencer replied to Cocovelo | 1 year ago
2 likes

Which I think legitimately takes us around the circle to looking at the riding.

Were these particular cyclists riding in control in a way that was giving consideration to the risks that were around them?

While there were junctions, they had reasonable visibility splays, and no cars approached the junctions as they were riding, there were not any pedestrians near the crossing, the demeanor of those cyclists were that they were in control. Was it a bit quick through the villag? Probably. Was it dangerous cycling? There is precious little evidence in that video that the cyclists were riding aggressively and taking risks. I thought that perhaps early on that the first corner looked unsighted and there might have been a surprise, so I might take them to task for that, but aside from that, I am struggling to see anything in their riding that makes their riding particularly noteworthy.

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Off the back replied to IanMSpencer | 1 year ago
0 likes

"While there were junctions, they had reasonable visibility splays, and no cars approached the junctions as they were riding, there were not any pedestrians near the crossing, the demeanor of those cyclists were that they were in control."

So, if a driver was doing more than 30mph on that very same piece of road, should they be able to justify it with the same logic you use? "Sorry officer, I know I was going well over the limit, but there was nothing coming and I could see very clearly"  

There may not be a specific law for cyclists, but there has to be common sense applied. Literally just after the '30' speed limit sign there is a blind corner and on it are 2 juntions on the left - maybe a narrow path or a driveway but still a possible place for a car to pull out just enough to cause an issue. It doesn't have to be a collision but going at speed in a tight group the concertina effect means if the front rider brakes heavy the rear one could end up in a pile on the ground or end up poughing into the rider in front. 

Speed limits are there for the safety of everyone. drivers, pedestrians, cyclists. Just because there is no legal requirement to slow down it should still be adhered to for the safety of all around. 

Avatar
mattw | 1 year ago
2 likes

I think the 40mph through-the-village-past-the-various-blind-entrances is more nuanced than this. But I'd say the police should have framed it as "without due consideration" not "speeding".

Stayed out of the scrimmage, but this was my comment over at my Twitter place:

I'm in 2 minds on this one. We have an expectation for motor vehicle drivers to be at a speed suitable for the conditions not to follow the letter of the law. I think through a village with a fair number of blind exits, junctions, Zebra crossing etc, 40mph is questionably fast.<
https://twitter.com/mattwardman/status/1698422024828228075

Best reply imo:
This would be ideal material for workshops for police on how to work with cyclists and how to use social media to communicate key road crime messages. It could bring out assumptions about cycling danger and the implications of posting about cycling. It has made roads less safe.
https://twitter.com/2wheelsgoodBrum/status/1698597761027887296

Avatar
mitsky | 1 year ago
1 like

There was a report on BBC news (TV) over the weekend about a UK police force (Lincolnshire, I believe) taken dashcam evidence from drivers of other drivers' bad driving. (Sorry.)

 

But I can't find anything online about it now.

The report asked members of the public if they would issue reports to the police.
As if this was new and not something that some drivers and cyclists have been doing for some years now.
The report made this (reporting) seem innoccous if it was by drivers, but we all now how many feel about cyclists doing the same.

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EddyBerckx | 1 year ago
9 likes

Tbh I got no problems with police giving them friendly words of advice - without threats and so on, and WITHOUT putting it on social media where the predicable happens. Going into a village at speed is not cool regardless of what you drive / ride.

But honestly, cars never stick to 30mph when they have the choice of going faster and 37-39 is pretty much the minimum default speed they'll do without thinking.

Avatar
NickSprink | 1 year ago
10 likes

I'll stick my neck out and say it may not be illegal to do 40 in a 30 zone on a bike, but is it sensible?  Would a pedestrian for example be expecting a bike to approach that fast?  By definition a 30 zone is a high risk zone, for all road users.

I believe that is was the police meant by offering "words of advice".

Avatar
hawkinspeter replied to NickSprink | 1 year ago
5 likes

NickSprink wrote:

I'll stick my neck out and say it may not be illegal to do 40 in a 30 zone on a bike, but is it sensible?  Would a pedestrian for example be expecting a bike to approach that fast?  By definition a 30 zone is a high risk zone, for all road users.

I believe that is was the police meant by offering "words of advice".

I certainly wouldn't want to be doing 40 anywhere near where there's a lot of pedestrians. It's reasonable to assume that most cyclists have a better understanding of the risks involved than a driver would. If I was doing 40 (downhill with a strong tailwind) then I would be taking the lane and ensuring that I had good view of anything ahead of me.

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Brauchsel replied to hawkinspeter | 1 year ago
6 likes

"I certainly wouldn't want to be doing 40 anywhere near where there's a lot of pedestrians. It's reasonable to assume that most cyclists have a better understanding of the risks involved than a driver would."

Agreed on both counts. A 30 zone is somewhere almost by definition where pedestrians are likely to be, so I don't think it's very responsible of the riders to be going at that speed in one. 

It isn't, and shouldn't be, illegal but the police do have a general duty to maintain public safety even if laws aren't being broken. If the "words of advice" were genuinely that, and offered in a non-aggressive way, I don't have much of a problem with it. If delivered in a "we're watching you, dickhead cyclists" manner then I do. 

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hawkinspeter replied to Brauchsel | 1 year ago
5 likes

Brauchsel wrote:

Agreed on both counts. A 30 zone is somewhere almost by definition where pedestrians are likely to be, so I don't think it's very responsible of the riders to be going at that speed in one. 

It isn't, and shouldn't be, illegal but the police do have a general duty to maintain public safety even if laws aren't being broken. If the "words of advice" were genuinely that, and offered in a non-aggressive way, I don't have much of a problem with it. If delivered in a "we're watching you, dickhead cyclists" manner then I do. 

I don't object to police voicing their opinions about safety etc. and giving advice - most of the time that's good policing. My objection would be to police ignoring speeding drivers that do pose significant danger and instead just focussing on cyclists that pose far less danger. Unfortunately, most police have contracted car-brain and so consider that cyclists are a threat and ignore motorists casually breaking traffic laws.

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Off the back replied to hawkinspeter | 1 year ago
0 likes

I would take the fact they pass over a zebra crossing as a key indicator there probably would be pedestrians. And as im sure we all know, some people will cross the road anywhere even if there is a zebra crossing to use. You can argue the rights and wrongs of whos to blame but preferably not in A&E. 

Avatar
Hirsute replied to NickSprink | 1 year ago
3 likes

There are 2 surrounding issues - there is a driver ahead doing 40 - was he spoken too ? Why was the police driver speeding in the 30?

What advice was given ? Get a computer, a better computer? On what basis did he stop them ?

I would not have had the confidence to go at that speed !

Edit - to make clear that they should have stuck roughly to 30.
That's separate from the issues around the tweet.

Avatar
BalladOfStruth replied to NickSprink | 1 year ago
8 likes

NickSprink wrote:

I'll stick my neck out and say it may not be illegal to do 40 in a 30 zone on a bike, but is it sensible?  Would a pedestrian for example be expecting a bike to approach that fast?  By definition a 30 zone is a high risk zone, for all road users.

One thing I've learned is that nobody expects cyclists to be doing much more than 10mph, ever. It's caused me plently of issues in the past where people will just step out in front of me because they see a cyclist and assume I'll be doing about a third of the speed I am.

So yeah, if there are unsighted hazards (driveways, entrances, etc) or peds around in any number, I'm going to ease off and make sure I can stop as quickly as possible.

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HoldingOn replied to NickSprink | 1 year ago
6 likes

39mph is scary fast on a bicycle, with nothing between your body and the road, other than a piece of thin fabric.

I honestly don't see how cyclists could possibly be expected to adhere to the speed limit - simply because it is difficult to know what speed they are doing. I use my watch, rather than a bike computer - so I don't know my speed until I finish my cycle.

I think the police were correct to point out to the cyclists that they were going too fast for the surroundings.
The police were NOT correct to put that Xcrement on Social Media.

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Left_is_for_Losers replied to HoldingOn | 1 year ago
0 likes

HoldingOn wrote:

I honestly don't see how cyclists could possibly be expected to adhere to the speed limit - simply because it is difficult to know what speed they are doing. I use my watch, rather than a bike computer - so I don't know my speed until I finish my cycle.

39mph is 39mps in a car or a bike 

So, if you don't expect cyclists to adhere to it, why would you in a car? Maybe cycling should be legislated so that you have to have a GPS monitor to know your speed. 

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quiff replied to Left_is_for_Losers | 1 year ago
6 likes

I know I shouldn't, sorry... I expect drivers to adhere to it because they have a mandatory calibrated speedometer. Cyclists are not obliged to have such a device, and so the speed limit does not apply to them. Is this an oversight in legislation, or has there perhaps been a cost benefit analysis which concludes that the benefit of mandating speedometers on bikes is needless hassle for the risk that cyclists present? As ably demonstrated by other posts here though, the fact that a speed limit does not apply does not prevent us from moderating our speed where appropriate.           

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Matthew Acton-Varian | 1 year ago
6 likes

Police forces that don't know the law... Who knew?

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Clem Fandango | 1 year ago
15 likes

"pedalling furiously"?

*checks video*

Not a vast amount of actual pedalling going on is there? 

One also suspects (based on years of first hand on the road experience) that absent the police car's presence, there would probably have been a Chelsea tractor behind them with a puce faced drivist fuming at being "held up".

 

EDIT: Yeah I'd probably ride differently myself in those circumstances (barrelling in to Shere from Hound House Road for example offers similar 'possible-but-not worth the risk' speed opportunities) but as I am also a drivist the old "but the other lot" part of my brain kicked in 3

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Sriracha | 1 year ago
1 like

Interesting post from another place:
https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=3b995d0b12a59c3847fe07fe793...

In short, there are some circumstances where speed limits do apply to cyclists, and, are speed cameras even certified for use on cyclists?

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hawkinspeter replied to Sriracha | 1 year ago
2 likes

Sriracha wrote:

Interesting post from another place: https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=3b995d0b12a59c3847fe07fe793... In short, there are some circumstances where speed limits do apply to cyclists, and, are speed cameras even certified for use on cyclists?

That's interesting that speed guns probably won't work for cyclists (due to the very small metallic target) and I'd guess that any speed reading could be challenged in court.

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Sriracha replied to hawkinspeter | 1 year ago
3 likes

I don't think the "metallic target" issue is real, radar reflects off water etc. But there are still plenty potential issues - the spokes could be interesting, so too the movement of the rider/limbs/ pedals etc. The speed gun needs to be type approved for its intended target, and I doubt it has been approved for cyclists.

Assuming the guns are not approved for cyclists the police have no business stirring things up based on what amounts to conjecture anyway. For all we know their speed reading was an artefact and means nothing.

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mark1a replied to Sriracha | 1 year ago
4 likes

Sriracha wrote:

Assuming the guns are not approved for cyclists the police have no business stirring things up based on what amounts to conjecture anyway. For all we know their speed reading was an artefact and means nothing.

The police in this instance were not using a gun, this looks like a phone recorded video clip (portrait mode, argghh) of the in-car video equipment, the 39mph shown is the speed of their own vehicle.

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Sriracha replied to mark1a | 1 year ago
4 likes
mark1a wrote:

Sriracha wrote:

Assuming the guns are not approved for cyclists the police have no business stirring things up based on what amounts to conjecture anyway. For all we know their speed reading was an artefact and means nothing.

The police in this instance were not using a gun, this looks like a phone recorded video clip (portrait mode, argghh) of the in-car video equipment, the 39mph shown is the speed of their own vehicle.

That's a good point, I hadn't twigged that was what was going on here, and I was thinking only in terms of speed camera usage.

It does beg the question, unless the cops had their lights and siren on, are they not presenting an even greater danger than the cyclists, and all in pursuit of what?

I've seen those videos where the police are in full blues/twos pursuit of a speeding motorist, and use their calibrated speedo as evidence, but that is not the same as silently shadowing a target thereby committing the same offence themselves they seek to prevent in others.

(I'm not on X so if there is a video I haven't seen it).

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