Chris Froome talks safety concerns of disc brakes in the pro peloton

philhubbard wrote:

I personally like how he thinks it is dangerous, they mentions how he has never used them. Makes his whole argument seem a bit pointless...

i think nuclear weapons are dangerous, but I've never used them. I still think my argument is fairly valid. 

andyp wrote:

i think nuclear weapons are dangerous, but I've never used them. I still think my argument is fairly valid. 

No it isn't because it is a strawman and has nothing to do with the discussion of disk brakes.

juanerasmoe wrote:

andyp wrote:

i think nuclear weapons are dangerous, but I've never used them. I still think my argument is fairly valid. 

 

No it isn't because it is a strawman and has nothing to do with the discussion of disk brakes.

but it has everything to do with the power of thought, research and independent decision-making. Just like Froome's comments. 

juanerasmoe wrote:

andyp wrote:

i think nuclear weapons are dangerous, but I've never used them. I still think my argument is fairly valid. 

 

No it isn't because it is a strawman and has nothing to do with the discussion of disk brakes.

I can understand his concern.  The whole point of introducing disks is that they are better than rim brakes.  Better = stops quicker.  If one rider is on rims and the other on disks then accidents may happen in a closely packed peloton.  You don't need to have used disks to see that it's an issue.

jimhead wrote:

juanerasmoe wrote:

andyp wrote:

i think nuclear weapons are dangerous, but I've never used them. I still think my argument is fairly valid. 

 

No it isn't because it is a strawman and has nothing to do with the discussion of disk brakes.

 

I can understand his concern.  The whole point of introducing disks is that they are better than rim brakes.  Better = stops quicker.  If one rider is on rims and the other on disks then accidents may happen in a closely packed peloton.  You don't need to have used disks to see that it's an issue.

In the dry they're pretty similar. In the wet, not so much, particlarly with carbon rims etc. But it requires a rider to grab a load of brake and brake sharply. In the peleton such a grab is likely to cause a big crash given their distances. On a strung out wet descent then it becomes much less of an issue. It takes no time for riders to learn what the modulation is. 

jimhead wrote:

juanerasmoe wrote:

andyp wrote:

i think nuclear weapons are dangerous, but I've never used them. I still think my argument is fairly valid. 

 

No it isn't because it is a strawman and has nothing to do with the discussion of disk brakes.

 

I can understand his concern.  The whole point of introducing disks is that they are better than rim brakes.  Better = stops quicker.  If one rider is on rims and the other on disks then accidents may happen in a closely packed peloton.  You don't need to have used disks to see that it's an issue.

with well set up rim brakes there will be a problem in the peleton if the first person slams the brakes on, discs are not neccesary for that. Generally there are no issues because no one uses full braking power in the pack, only when approaching hair pins on the descent where the riders tend to bee spread out anyway.

philhubbard wrote:

I personally like how he thinks it is dangerous, they mentions how he has never used them. Makes his whole argument seem a bit pointless...

Have you actually read what he says?

bendertherobot wrote:

It's weird. As an amateur I change bikes regularly... You'd think, given how this may well affect their employment, that a few minutes round the back to see how it all works might be an idea before giving a statement.

But as an amateur you won't be riding in very close proximity to 200 other riders.

I've got bikes with dual pivots, cantis, cable discs and v brakes and can ride them all fine. But one winter ride I went out with the club on a wet ride on my canti equipped cross bike and almost crashed into other riders who slammed their brakes on to avoid something. My cantis were much less effective than the discs and dual pivots around me. I ended up having to leave extra room, which I wouldn't be happy doing in a race situation.

To be fair, I am not sure how much difference there is between dual pivots and discs. On the other hand, if there isn't that much difference in braking performance, and if discs are heavier, then why would the pros bother with them?

Chris James wrote:

bendertherobot wrote:

It's weird. As an amateur I change bikes regularly... You'd think, given how this may well affect their employment, that a few minutes round the back to see how it all works might be an idea before giving a statement.

But as an amateur you won't be riding in very close proximity to 200 other riders.

I've got bikes with dual pivots, cantis, cable discs and v brakes and can ride them all fine. But one winter ride I went out with the club on a wet ride on my canti equipped cross bike and almost crashed into other riders who slammed their brakes on to avoid something. My cantis were much less effective than the discs and dual pivots around me. I ended up having to leave extra room, which I wouldn't be happy doing in a race situation.

To be fair, I am not sure how much difference there is between dual pivots and discs. On the other hand, if there isn't that much difference in braking performance, and if discs are heavier, then why would the pros bother with them?

Indeed, but these guys are amazing. Huge skills. Yet we're seeing statements that they are really worried that they can't adapt to something that is actually fairly adaptable. And, similarly to Millar, without even trying it out. 

Peleton crashes are fairly frequent now. This adds to the mix. An effect may be to string out the peleton a little and that's not great. But I think that they'll figure it out very quickly. The truth is that in the peleton, given the tiny margins, it won't make much of a difference. On a wet descent it might. 

Chris James wrote:

But one winter ride I went out with the club on a wet ride on my canti equipped cross bike and almost crashed into other riders who slammed their brakes on to avoid something. My cantis were much less effective than the discs and dual pivots around me. I ended up having to leave extra room, which I wouldn't be happy doing in a race situation.

In which case you would expect those pros not using discs would very quickly be having full and frank conversations with their bike sponsors.

mbrads72 wrote:

Chris James wrote:

But one winter ride I went out with the club on a wet ride on my canti equipped cross bike and almost crashed into other riders who slammed their brakes on to avoid something. My cantis were much less effective than the discs and dual pivots around me. I ended up having to leave extra room, which I wouldn't be happy doing in a race situation.

In which case you would expect those pros not using discs would very quickly be having full and frank conversations with their bike sponsors.

Perhaps, although the pros forced to lug another 0.5kg of disc brake up an alpine climb might also have something to say. Or the sprinters giving away watts to their oposition who are running direct mount brakes.

I guess there are pluses and minuses to all braking systems.

Chris James wrote:

bendertherobot wrote:

It's weird. As an amateur I change bikes regularly... You'd think, given how this may well affect their employment, that a few minutes round the back to see how it all works might be an idea before giving a statement.

But as an amateur you won't be riding in very close proximity to 200 other riders.

I've got bikes with dual pivots, cantis, cable discs and v brakes and can ride them all fine. But one winter ride I went out with the club on a wet ride on my canti equipped cross bike and almost crashed into other riders who slammed their brakes on to avoid something. My cantis were much less effective than the discs and dual pivots around me. I ended up having to leave extra room, which I wouldn't be happy doing in a race situation.

To be fair, I am not sure how much difference there is between dual pivots and discs. On the other hand, if there isn't that much difference in braking performance, and if discs are heavier, then why would the pros bother with them?

We're well into the realm of marginal gains in much (all?) of the technological innovation on the pro tour. That doesn't mean there aren't huge markets for ordinary Joes emulating the pros, so there's big money for the likes of Shimano in pushing the next tech, even if it's backed by less-than-robust evidence.

(Before I get flamed for questioning the effectiveness of disc brakes, I'm not. They're clearly the right solution for certain applications (eg. cars, or downhill MTB'ing). I'm just taking some convincing that the peloton needs a brake upgrade from what they have now).