Support road.cc

Like this site? Help us to make it better.

TECH NEWS

Could this be the new Shimano Dura-Ace 9200 dual control lever?

Unidentified component makes an appearance on Specialized's website

Could this be the new 2022-generation Shimano Dura-Ace 9200 shifter fitted to an Aethos on Specialized’s website

These points suggest it could be:

  • The hood is a very different shape to any in Shimano’s current lineup with a gentler, less abrupt upward curve.
  • The textured shift lever that sits directly behind the brake lever extends right the way up to the underside of the hood section, which is unlike anything Shimano’s range at the moment.
  • The brake lever is far straighter than on current Dura-Ace.

On the other hand, there are no visible brake hoses here, and the Aethos's hoses run externally between the handlebar and the fork, indicating that this could just be a computer rendering and not to be taken at face value.

We’ve speculated a lot about new Dura-Ace recently, and reported that applications approved by the US Federal Communications Commission (FCC) seem to confirm rumours that the next generation will be at least partially wireless.

2021 Shimano Dura-Ace 9200 shifter - maybe! - 1

There’s certainly a wire fitted to the Aethos’s rear derailleur (above). There’s just a chance that it could link the front and rear derailleurs and that the rest of the system is wireless, but those components look like they’re from the existing Shimano Dura-Ace lineup, as does the chainset, so on the whole we don't think this dual control lever is the real deal.

It's all very odd and we're just not sure, but here's what we're hoping to see in Shimano Dura-Ace 9200.

> Your complete guide to Shimano road bike groupsets
New Shimano Dura-Ace Mechs

David Arthur took a look at some rumours that were doing the rounds back in February 2020 predicting that the next Dura-Ace will carry the R9200 series name. A little later in the year, we saw what was believed to be the new Dura-Ace system on Remco Evenepoel’s bike. The issues faced this year might have delayed its release, but rest assured, things are moving in the right direction for the release of this new tech.

The problem is, we’re currently all just guessing at what this new tech might actually consist of. Cycling Weekly reckons that the new Dura-Ace Di2 will be Di2-only and powered by cigarette lighter technology, while CyclingTips has come to the conclusion that 12-speed and wireless are definitely going to be features of Dura-Ace. 

So without further ado, here's our next-gen Dura-Ace wishlist... 

12-speed, please

Broadly, we’re all singing from the same hymn sheet on this one. 12-speed shifting looks to be one of the main features of the new Dura-Ace and we’re ok with that. 11 cogs in a cassette are, let’s face it, absolutely fine. The same was said about 10 cogs, but to keep up with the crowd, Shimano will need to make their latest groupset 12-speed. Not that we'll be complaining about having an extra cog.

A standard freehub standard

While Sram went to an XD driver to attach its cassettes to wheels, we believe that Shimano will follow Campagnolo and simply squeeze an extra cog onto its existing Shimano Hypreglide freehub standard. That would be excellent news for those of you with a few wheelsets, and we're sure that aftermarket wheel brands would be grateful too.

The only scenario that we could see forcing Shimano to use its MicroSpline freehub standard from the mountain bike world would be the move to a 10T cog in the cassette... but more on that later.

Make a 32T cog available as standard

Dura-Ace Cassette 11-30

With the last iteration of Dura-Ace, Shimano moved the maximum cog allowed in the standard cage length up from 20T to 30T. We’d like to see this extended again to fit a 32T cog in the rear.

Why? If 12-speed does indeed happen then an 11-32T cassette would be ideal for the majority of roadies, with the larger cogs in the rear helping us up those steep climbs. Many already customise their setups to these ratios, we’d just like to see it become standard issue.

Do we need a 10T cog, really?

While we’re on the subject of cogs, we would expect Shimano to follow Campagnolo’s lead on what to do with the extra cog in the 12-speed system.

SRAM used it to add a 10T cog in the rear and then made the chainrings smaller. The theory is very solid; it allows the rider to remain in the big ring for longer and saves a bit of weight too. That said, issues with drivetrain resistance reported by Velonews and the fact that many SRAM-sponsored riders have ditched the 10T along with the smaller chainrings points to it not being a perfect solution.

Campagnolo simply uses the extra cog to smooth a jump between teeth in a wide-ranging cassette. And that would be very helpful if Shimano decided to give us 11-32T cassettes as standard.

Make it wireless

shimano di2 battery

While wiring a Di2 system is pretty straight forward, the setup simplicity of SRAM has drawn many riders to SRAM’s eTap system. Several conflicting patent drawings make it unclear as to whether Shimano will go for a fully wireless system, or rely on some connection between various parts of the groupset.

There is a separate argument to be had as to how useful wireless is. Ok, it might make installation a bit faster, but in use, there aren’t many significant benefits to a wireless system; especially if that wireless system has very fractionally slower shifting than wired, or has reduced battery life. SRAM's double-tap design, which relies on you pressing both left and right shifter paddles at the same time to shift the front derailleur, waits for a fraction of a second when you press for a shift of the rear derailleur. The system is simply waiting to see if you are going to press both paddles, hence the small delay in shifting. 

SRAM eTap also houses the batteries in the derailleurs themselves, resulting in a slightly reduced battery compared to Shimano and Campagnolo. The benefits of each system is a can of worms to crack open if you’re bored on a long ride with a mechanically-minded friend.

Improve the app integration

One thing that we think Shimano simply must learn from SRAM is that app integration, and its performance, are both crucial, especially when we're becoming so accustomed to using apps to get the most out of cycling tech nowadays.  

Get a bike with SRAM Red eTap AXS equipped and you simply download the app, connect to your groupset via Bluetooth, and away you go. With Shimano, an inline wireless connector needs buying for an eyebrow-raising sum before you can connect the system to your smartphone. Before you do that, the system needs to be on the same update; and to ensure that is the case, the bike needs plugging into the computer software, which has all of the smartphone app functionality, making the app a little redundant.

Continuation of mechanical shifting

2021 Specialized S-Work Aethos Dure Ace Di2 Disc - lever.jpg

Mechanical Dura-Ace shifting is some of the smoothest on the market, and while the industry is undoubtedly going towards disc brakes and electronic shifting on high-end bikes, we’d love to see Dura-Ace continue to offer mechanical shifting and rim brakes

That said, we’ve been through Trek’s 2021 range and there is no sign of mechanical Dura-Ace shifting. With the launch of its new Emonda, Trek said that the decision to make it a disc-brake only platform in 2021 was based on sales data that showed an overwhelming preference for discs.

Custom programmability - shout about it!

Finally, we’d really like to see Shimano make more of the custom programmability of Di2. Shifter button functions can be customised, and you can do some really cool stuff with that.

One cyclocross racer had both their left and their right shifter programmed to operate the rear derailleur on their 1X race bike. That way, if (when) they crashed and broke a shifter, they could still operate the gears. Ideally, this would tie in nicely with a better app experience and wouldn’t require the inline wireless transmitter.

How much of this will we get from the new Dura-Ace groupset? We’re feeling greedy, so hopefully all of it!

Add new comment

47 comments

Avatar
Nick T | 3 years ago
4 likes

Cables and cranks that don't snap would be a good start

Avatar
Cyclespeed Tours replied to Nick T | 3 years ago
0 likes

Absolutely. And cassettes. I've had 3 DA cassettes break on me. The rivets on the silly plastic spider pops and the cog breaks.

Avatar
TheBillder replied to Cyclespeed Tours | 3 years ago
0 likes

Isn't that a good argument for buying lower down the range for almost equivalent function and better durability at the cost of a few grams?

Of course if DA goes 12 speed it's all a bit moot, but 105 cassettes are all metal and I think the chainset issue is Ultegra and above.

Avatar
Nick T replied to TheBillder | 3 years ago
0 likes

Hardly an excuse for selling shoddy products is it?

Avatar
TheBillder | 3 years ago
3 likes

What happens when 5 years down the line, your groupset, which is still in good condition mechanically, needs the app and you find it no longer works on a current phone? 5 years isn't all that long in bike land but in phones it's an epoch.

Do you have to try to find an old used phone, hope you can install the app from somewhere, and use that? Or are your shifters and derailleurs as dead as last year's home automation kit?

Avatar
Secret_squirrel replied to TheBillder | 3 years ago
1 like

Since the current DI2 app has been out for at least that long already I think your point is rather moot.

Avatar
hawkinspeter replied to TheBillder | 3 years ago
1 like

They do a Windows version as well, so I doubt that you'd have too much trouble.

Avatar
TheBillder replied to hawkinspeter | 3 years ago
1 like

That's good - it was a genuine question. Unlikely that I'll ever need to know as Dura Ace doesn't really suit my ability. Or vice versa.

Avatar
hawkinspeter replied to TheBillder | 3 years ago
0 likes

I've got Ultegra Di2 on my bike though I'm not a fan of proprietary software/protocols - it can lead to abandoned software which is especially bad for phone only apps as they'll eventually get booted out from app stores. Shimano at least is unlikely to disappear any time soon though another possible problem is if they decide to drop support for older versions. The main electronics are housed in the battery (which is why it's so expensive) so at least upgrading the system would only consist of buying a new battery.

Avatar
TheBillder replied to hawkinspeter | 3 years ago
1 like

Compatibility is the problem. I have a perfectly adequate Creative web cam that I wanted to use in lockdown, but there's no driver for Windows 10, and I couldn't get it to work with older drivers. So perfectly functional hardware went to the tip. Creative are still going.

What guarantee is there that a new and improved battery with the electronics will be compatible with older mechanicals? It's an easy opportunity for planned obsolescence, and batteries themselves don't last forever.

Shimano are pretty good on this in general for mechanical kit - they still do square taper cranks and so on. Not sure about other suppliers though.

Avatar
Secret_squirrel replied to TheBillder | 3 years ago
0 likes

Its a valid concern.  Arguably Sram have more recent form in the area than Shimano do - Shimmy 1st Gen DI2 was left behind but that was ages ago now, and mechanically its hard to mix and match 10sp Di2 vs 11sp DI2.  Of course it may happen again if next gen Di2 goes wireless  

If I was an ETAP Red owner though I'd still be smarting over AXS.

Avatar
hawkinspeter replied to TheBillder | 3 years ago
0 likes

TheBillder wrote:

Compatibility is the problem. I have a perfectly adequate Creative web cam that I wanted to use in lockdown, but there's no driver for Windows 10, and I couldn't get it to work with older drivers. So perfectly functional hardware went to the tip. Creative are still going. What guarantee is there that a new and improved battery with the electronics will be compatible with older mechanicals? It's an easy opportunity for planned obsolescence, and batteries themselves don't last forever. Shimano are pretty good on this in general for mechanical kit - they still do square taper cranks and so on. Not sure about other suppliers though.

Don't get me started on Windows 10...

Avatar
Secret_squirrel replied to hawkinspeter | 3 years ago
0 likes

Actually if you do some reading its not a propietary as you think.  AFAIK its pretty much standard Cambus which is in widespread use in the Automotive industry.   Also although a different "label" all Shimanos STEP's e-bike stuff also uses the same comms as DI2 so most if not all of it is interchangeable.

It would be nice if the big 3 had one of their uncommon fits of co-operation and agreed a wireless standard or similar tho.  I wont hold my breath.

Avatar
hawkinspeter replied to Secret_squirrel | 3 years ago
1 like

Secret_squirrel wrote:

Actually if you do some reading its not a propietary as you think.  AFAIK its pretty much standard Cambus which is in widespread use in the Automotive industry.   Also although a different "label" all Shimanos STEP's e-bike stuff also uses the same comms as DI2 so most if not all of it is interchangeable.

It would be nice if the big 3 had one of their uncommon fits of co-operation and agreed a wireless standard or similar tho.  I wont hold my breath.

Thanks - I did not know that.

Not only is it not proprietary, but I can install some userspace tools with a mere "apt-get install can-utils". (Seems to be called "canbus" rather than "cambus").

Avatar
fukawitribe replied to hawkinspeter | 3 years ago
0 likes

Di2 is basically a proprietary ANT profile running as data over power (wired/E-tube) or wireless. It's been pretty much reverse-engineered by some folk (and EPS) including the private key, so you could knock yourself up something if for some odd reason Shimano completely pulled the plug. Check out Keith Wakeham on his YouTube channel and on github for good over-view and resources etc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25Kyh5im_ak&ab_channel=KeithWakeham

https://github.com/kwakeham/DiHack/

Avatar
hawkinspeter replied to fukawitribe | 3 years ago
0 likes

I think there's two different protocols involved. The non-proprietary canbus runs over the wires, but the proprietary ANT protocol is used for communication with sensors (wirelessly).

Avatar
fukawitribe replied to hawkinspeter | 3 years ago
0 likes

Think Keith had probed the output lines to the wires to sense the handshakes and decode the ANT exchange - that would of course go out to the wireless module as well but that's just handling the comms part AFAIK. Have a butchers at the first video though, might have got that wrong, and there's another one that's before that about the initial snoop (no link at the mo, in middle of stuff, sorry but should be easy to find)

Pages

Latest Comments