Buy a fake, risk death, support slavery – says bike industry

if the bike is made in the same factory by the same factory worker in china to the same spec but not sold through the same supplier as mentioned above, by some one with years in the trade, what is the problem except that the big corporate company is not getting there cut. If you don't buy product which aren't fair trade then fair enough but I'm afraid the majority do buy goods from china and I only see that market expanding.

Personally I'm not too driven by brand but I would buy a "replica" high end frame with out the high price stickers. I guess that wouldn't be fake?

As for comparing buying a bike which was someone's pride and joy which has been stolen to stealing a corporate brand seems a little bizarre though I guess its about the value you give to individuals compared to corporate companies.

I think you will find genuine UGG boots collapse at the heal too because there expensive crap.

I think people are looking through rose tinted glasses, no one is talking about genuine generic stuff.... FFS. Ask yourself this would you put your child on a fake, or give them a copied toy with poor stitching just to save a couple of quid? You should answer yes, as you seem happy with your products. Have you seen all the fake ugg boots, they always have clapsed heels, imagine if that's your fork at 40mph downhill, night night.

I have worked against child slavery in fake sweatshops from electronics to soft toys, but like many people, what you don't see doesn't bother you.

And no I have never used ebay or any other auction site so no I have not purchased a cheap version of anything... I don't even use amazon now I know how they treat their staff on the ground floor.

cyclingDMlondon wrote:

Why not just try the truth? 'Buy a nicked or fake bike, and you're shafting someone who worked to design the real thing'.

Same could be said about buying anything second hand.

We used to have a similar problem with computer power supplies, they'd be labelled as 800W units but would burn out, shut down after a couple or three hours of load testing with a 5-600W load. Our testing solved this problem, reduced our return rate and cut the 'mislabelled' units out of our supply chain. It's a bit like how Toys'R'us have to label their cheap kids and mountain bikes as 'not for competitive use', because their frames would break if used in anger. No problem with cheap carbon but sell through supermarkets etc... and label it as 'not for competitive use' or 'do not exceed 15mph on this frame". Moral of this anecdote for the LBS: test your product before you sell it on to the end user.

It suits the brands to try and discredit genuine, generic product from the fakes - they'll be telling us next that unless our bikes are serviced but 'official' dealers, then warranties are no longer valid - not that they're barely worth the paper they're written on.
I've worked in the trade and I'm tired of the BS - I order my own custom frames from China because they're a quarter to a third of the price the similar product that's made by the same people in the same factory. There's nothing 'fakery' about it, I'm just cutting out 2 sets of box-shifters who double the price every time. This is the same heavy-handedness of expensive lawyers protecting their clients IPR for selling "Roubaix" bicycle wheels.

I've seen some very high-end, or top-end, branded bike parts + frames made officially in the same building as what I'd call a fake or pass-off big-brand part. Wasn't logo-d up as the big brands but could have been elsewhere. Wasn't a sweatshop and I'd be suprised if there was any more dodgy dealings linked to that place than any other large business. I didn't see any mafioso/cartel types playing cards with rolled up Yuans on the table. The 'pass-off' parts didn't do my impression of the factory a lot of good but there's no denying the quality of the kit they can make there.

Counterfeiting will exist for as long as people are prepared to pay extra for a name [ NO THIS IS NOT A DIG AT RAPHA BUYERS!].

A few years ago when I built my 'Weekend special' I decided that I wanted a carbon frame. After much searching I settled on a b'Twin composit 700 frame. Why?

1. It's geometry was perfect.
2. As it was a fraction of the price of an equivalent from Trek, Cannondale, Scott, etc I was able to spend my budget where it really mattered (Seat, wheels, brakes, drive-chain, bearings).
3. Any thief is going to walk straight past my 'budget bike' and steal yours.

Yes I know it's not as pretty as yours, but pretty is not going to get you up that hill any quicker.

Where counterfeiting is a real problem is where safety is compromised. If something looks too good to be true then it tends to be too good to be true. If you think something is counterfeit then don't buy it. Simple.

Straight away I can tell you that pros do not have an endless supply of free bikes. The bikes are very reluctantly handed out and are closely monitored... nothing goes to waste, and no one gets freebies... OK, not many get freebies.

In the same way as Alonso doesn't have a Ferrari F1 car in his garage I guess.

However, I doubt there are many buying cheap knock-offs, when they'll be issued with a genuine training bike that they are contracted to ride.

I find the whole industry a bit weird when it comes to carbon frame manufacture. The reality is, for all the mystique surrounding carbon frames, they are not so magical as we are made to believe. Its simply clever plastic. Therefore its not hard or expensive to make a good frame. We are all being taken for mugs and the only way to make it stop is to stop buying these super expensive framesets. What is not the right way forward is to buy a knock-off.

I think the higher end bike products are massively over priced when you consider the manufactring and R & D cost. Just my opinion no evidence. But with cycling being "trendy" some rider want to show there wealth by buying very expensive gear that they will never get near to using to its potential. Bit like the shit golfer with the £1000 clubs who will never use the clubs potential.

Thing is manufacturers are taking full advantage of this (true capitalism) and they are charging as much as people will pay.

I really like Casstelli it's good quality and looks nice too but £130 for what are nylon tights come on? But I pay it because I'm a knob like all the other sheep. As for Rapha pricing well.....

But as true up and coming capitalist some companies apparently in the Far East (who I suspect make the legitimate gear too), have seen a gap in the market.

Some of it is very poor quality but some appears very good. I am aware of a rider I met on a sportive last year who had a Dogma which he bought as a frame set for £300 a chinerelo he called it if memory is right, it was identicle in every way to a friends genuine dogma. Ok I couldn't X-ray it to check integrity of the carbon ect but felt the right weight and he had ridden a few thousand miles.

Now in not saying copy right infringement is ok but then neither is profiteering and I can see why a person who could only dream of spending what they may see is a fortune on a bike would want to look as good as the bloke who can spend £5000plus on a bike. But that is our society isn't it?
Now I suppose you might say get a better job and buy a better bike AKA Clarkson argument for cars. Or the bike companies could stop taking the piss with the pricing.

As for organised crime, it could be argued that by over pricing the posh bike manufacturers are creating a market for counterfeits. IMO I cant see Colombian drug Barrons investing in fake bikes. The only crime I can see is if the buyer is not told its a fake. Is it criminal to charge £4000 for so thing that cost £300 to manufacture.

I'm very happy with my Ribble not posh but rides great.

It's really scary that innocent bikers are being lured by organised criminals
with all their prostitutes and narcotics.

I went to a prs (music royalties collection agency) talk where they blithely mentioned music piracy being linked to paedophilia and terrorism. They got booed to a stop and quite right too.

The radio supposedly used in the Lockerbie bomb came from a market trader stall that had counterfeit handbags. That quickly turned into "Don't Buy Fake Gucci Or You Help Terrorism". It's quite shameful. Or shameless. Both, I suppose.

I heard that the only way to prove you have a real frame is to saw the downtube in half and retrieve a small piece of paper which either says “congratulations on having purchased a genuine product!” or “you are an idiot” - basically much like a really expensive fortune cookie.

I think (I'm pretty sure) I read that many pros buy cheap, unbranded, Chinese carbon frames to build virtually disposable winter/trainer bikes. I'm guessing the general consensus is that they are at least safe enough for the rigour they're likely to go through. if they add brand decals to these frames, they obviously become counterfeit, but it doesn't mean they're any less safe.

I think if these guys had their way it wouldn't only be counterfeits that were illegal, but also cheap, unbranded carbon frames & components made by essentially the same companies that churn out gear for the big names

Hyperbole, spin and protectionism all!

I wonder if they took a stroll round the Taipei show floor and questioned the provenance and copyright-skimming status of the various looky-very-likey products road.cc highlighted on the article posted yesterday.

Anyone for a Trak Medone or a Specialazed Illez?

Not the quite the same level of concern as for the fake Boeing and Airbus parts...

I know a lot of cyclists. I'm sure we all do, collectively.

Quick show if hands, has anyone ever seen one of these fake bikes in real life? Can't say I have, personally.

No-one condones counterfeit products, but if the "industry" wasn't so hell bent on making what we've just bought obsolete, as quickly as possible, so they can flog us yet more stuff, then maybe the whole counterfeit problem would be reduced substantially. The "industry" must play their part.