Do these 'baseball bat' van stickers incite violence against cyclists?

Housecathst wrote:

It's like our very own cut price Kate Hopkins, 

That would be Katie Hopkins.

paulfg42 wrote:

Keep digging.

How about this one? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWLoPvdUVRc

Those drivers should feel ashamed that they failed in their 100% responsibility to ensure that this absolute twat made it from A to B in one piece. 

I would not lose one wink of sleep if that arsehole ended his life under my wheels.

100% his fault. 100% his responsibility. Zero fucks given.

My last word.

L.Willo wrote:

paulfg42 wrote:

Keep digging.

How about this one? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWLoPvdUVRc

Those drivers should feel ashamed that they failed in their 100% responsibility to ensure that this absolute twat made it from A to B in one piece. 

I would not lose one wink of sleep if that arsehole ended his life under my wheels.

100% his fault. 100% his responsibility. Zero fucks given.

Why did you need to find a video of someone cycling dangerously to illustrate your point.

You've argued that you have no duty of care towards other road users. How they behave would be irrelevant to that point.

L.Willo wrote:

My last word.

I'm sure that will be as accurate as everything else you've written.

L.Willo wrote:

My last word.

Is that a promise?

Bez wrote:

If a driver has no responsibility for the safety of others outside their vehicle then can you explain, for starters, the offences of causing serious injury or death by careless or dangerous driving?

By inference if you have caused an accident and injury to others, you were not taking responsibility for your own safety, the safety of your passengers and teh safety of your equipment.

The law has a job to do to punish the consequences of drivers not using the road responsibly but the motivation of everyone on the road is selfish. A to B without incident.

Enduring a stressful  drive in hazardous conditions with slippery roads and poor visibility, the reaction is "thank God we made it here in one piece" ... not thank God we didn't kill anyone en route. Anyone who says that he thinks the latter is an extreme altruist or more likely a liar. 

L.Willo wrote:

Enduring a stressful  drive in hazardous conditions with slippery roads and poor visibility, the reaction is "thank God we made it here in one piece" ... not thank God we didn't kill anyone en route. Anyone who says that he thinks the latter is an extreme altruist or more likely a liar. 

Also, a fairly good test question to use in evaluating whether someone exhibits the traits of a psychopath.

bikebot wrote:

L.Willo wrote:

Enduring a stressful  drive in hazardous conditions with slippery roads and poor visibility, the reaction is "thank God we made it here in one piece" ... not thank God we didn't kill anyone en route. Anyone who says that he thinks the latter is an extreme altruist or more likely a liar. 

Also, a fairly good test question to use in evaluating whether someone exhibits the traits of a psychopath.

I vote we get L Willo to sit through the story with the upside down tortoise...  See what happens.

L.Willo wrote:

Bez wrote:

If a driver has no responsibility for the safety of others outside their vehicle then can you explain, for starters, the offences of causing serious injury or death by careless or dangerous driving?

By inference if you have caused an accident and injury to others, you were not taking responsibility for your own safety, the safety of your passengers and teh safety of your equipment.

The law has a job to do to punish the consequences of drivers not using the road responsibly but the motivation of everyone on the road is selfish. A to B without incident.

Enduring a stressful  drive in hazardous conditions with slippery roads and poor visibility, the reaction is "thank God we made it here in one piece" ... not thank God we didn't kill anyone en route. Anyone who says that he thinks the latter is an extreme altruist or more likely a liar. 

that is the most absurd statement, with air bargs and steel safety cage, ploughing through a whole load of pedestrains poses no danger to the driver or passengers

Sniffer wrote:

Unless a psychopath, humans generally have empathy for other human beings.  This often shows up in concern for others safety.

So a psychopath or not a human?

Empathy is one thing. Responsibility is another.

When the day comes that I can force you to wear a helmet, not wear headphones, light up your bike like a lighthouse, give clear signals, abide by the Highway Code at all times and generally not cycle like a twat, I will take responsibility for your safety. But I cannot control you nor do I want to.

There is this thing called self-determination that goes with the territory of being an adult. So when you choose to use the roads, you assume 100% responsibility for that decision. You should not look for or expect special treatment. How pathetic.

I should feel responsible for this jerk's safety: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mrTXUMgPpQ

Fuck that.

handlebarcam wrote:

Quote:

“My attitude when driving is based upon YOU not hogging the road!”

A Volkswagen Crafter Panel van, which is what this appears to be, is 199cm wide, not including wing mirrors. A road bicycle is, at most, 46cm wide. How, exactly, is the rider the latter hogging the road when it is less than a quarter of the width of the the former?

remember it is entirely unaccepotable foir 6 cyclists to take up the same space on the road as one person in their car.

EVEN if in doing so no one is caused any delay whatsoever. Stay in the gutter, don't 'hog the road'

So on balance I think these stickers are good thing, since we aren;t allowed to brand people with 'f***ing moron' that they choose to display this fact to all is quite helpful.

L.Willo wrote:

Yes. Please direct me to the part which says that I am responsible for the safety of other road users.

Willo - your comment is simply innaproriate. 

And in answer to your surprisingly genuine question.. the part where you have to drive with due care and attention. 

I don't know when or where you passed your test but there's a whole part nowadays focussed on looking about for potential hazards, like pedestrians, cycists and lamp posts.

Same way as in law that by default, a vehicle driver defaults at responsible for an accident concerning a pedestrian or cyclist.

peted76 wrote:

Willo - your comment is simply innaproriate. 

And in answer to your surprisingly genuine question.. the part where you have to drive with due care and attention. 

I don't know when or where you passed your test but there's a whole part nowadays focussed on looking about for potential hazards, like pedestrians, cycists and lamp posts.

Same way as in law that by default, a vehicle driver defaults at responsible for an accident concerning a pedestrian or cyclist.

Hey, I am responsible for my safety and the safety of my passengers. The End.

It is my responsibility to ensure that passengers in my car are wearing seatbelts and not behaving in ways likely to distract and cause accidents. It is my responsibility to make sure that pets are secured safely and cannot cause a disturbance. It is my responsibility to ensure that loads are securely fastened for similar reasons. It is my responsibility to not drive like a twat.

The reason why I am responsible and take responsibility for all of this is that:

• I do not want to have an accident,
• I do not want to get injured,
• I do not want to suffer damage to my car and end up with higher insurance premiums

The best way to achieve all of these objectives is to not collide with anyone / anything else i.e. any safety benefit for other road users is merely a by-product of me taking responsibility for the safety of me, my passengers and my equipment. If everyone had the same attitude on the road, we would all be fine.

What is dangerous is this bizarre notion that it is the job of others to look out for you. It does explain a lot of the self-entitlement I see on the streets though. e.g.

• Car drivers forcing their way onto exit lanes on motorways as they are convinced it is the responsibility of others to brake and let them in safely.
• Too cool for school pedestrians playing chicken.
• Cyclists pulling out from behind parked cars without a hand signal, a shoulder check and in no way prepared to stop and wait for an appropriate gap if the traffic is non-stop. I'll just pull out and let the driver's take responsibility for reading my mind like clairvoyants and not killing me.

I guess if you have the mentality that it is the job of others to look after you the temptation is there to put your life in the hands of others. Until one day you meet someone who refuses or is too incompetent to play ball and then you are dead.

A stupid way to go in my opinion.

No one is responsible for me when I am on the road, 2 wheels or 4. I am responsible for my own safety. That is my job, no one else's.

Below the line in road.cc is a very weird place ....

I love how the very first line in your PowerPoint presentation is woefully inaccurate. You are not responsible for the other adults in your car wearing a seatbelt. They are. 

L.Willo wrote:

peted76 wrote:

Willo - your comment is simply innaproriate. 

And in answer to your surprisingly genuine question.. the part where you have to drive with due care and attention. 

I don't know when or where you passed your test but there's a whole part nowadays focussed on looking about for potential hazards, like pedestrians, cycists and lamp posts.

Same way as in law that by default, a vehicle driver defaults at responsible for an accident concerning a pedestrian or cyclist.

Hey, I am responsible for my safety and the safety of my passengers. The End.

It is my responsibility to ensure that passengers in my car are wearing seatbelts and not behaving in ways likely to distract and cause accidents. It is my responsibility to make sure that pets are secured safely and cannot cause a disturbance. It is my responsibility to ensure that loads are securely fastened for similar reasons. It is my responsibility to not drive like a twat.

The reason why I am responsible and take responsibility for all of this is that:

• I do not want to have an accident,
• I do not want to get injured,
• I do not want to suffer damage to my car and end up with higher insurance premiums

The best way to achieve all of these objectives is to not collide with anyone / anything else i.e. any safety benefit for other road users is merely a by-product of me taking responsibility for the safety of me, my passengers and my equipment. If everyone had the same attitude on the road, we would all be fine.

What is dangerous is this bizarre notion that it is the job of others to look out for you. It does explain a lot of the self-entitlement I see on the streets though. e.g.

• Car drivers forcing their way onto exit lanes on motorways as they are convinced it is the responsibility of others to brake and let them in safely.
• Too cool for school pedestrians playing chicken.
• Cyclists pulling out from behind parked cars without a hand signal, a shoulder check and in no way prepared to stop and wait for an appropriate gap if the traffic is non-stop. I'll just pull out and let the driver's take responsibility for reading my mind like clairvoyants and not killing me.

I guess if you have the mentality that it is the job of others to look after you the temptation is there to put your life in the hands of others. Until one day you meet someone who refuses or is too incompetent to play ball and then you are dead.

A stupid way to go in my opinion.

No one is responsible for me when I am on the road, 2 wheels or 4. I am responsible for my own safety. That is my job, no one else's.

Below the line in road.cc is a very weird place ....

 

Smudgersmith15 wrote:

I love how the very first line in your PowerPoint presentation is woefully inaccurate. You are not responsible for the other adults in your car wearing a seatbelt. They are.

Sigh. What the law requires is one thing. What I require is another.

If I invite you into my car and you refuse to wear a seatbelt, I will very quickly invite you to get the hell out of my car which will not move until you have done so.

You see, the law might not require it, but when you get in my car, I take responsibility for your safety and do everything in my power not to put you in danger. Even if you do not want to help yourself.

People outside my car? I do not want an accident with you because that puts me and my passengers at risk but how you drive / cycle is entirely your own responsibility not mine and if your stupidity puts me in a situation where I have to choose between your safety and the safety of my passengers ... sorry, you lose.