Near Miss of the Day 3: Audi caught on film – but police won't act

john1967 wrote:

The cyclist gave no hand signal and the driver could only guess were the cyclist was going.

Lack of hand signals is bad. Creates the problem in the first place.

If the Audi driver was guessing though, perhaps they should have slowed down a little?

SNS1938 wrote:

john1967 wrote:

The cyclist gave no hand signal and the driver could only guess were the cyclist was going.

Lack of hand signals is bad. Creates the problem in the first place.

If the Audi driver was guessing though, perhaps they should have slowed down a little?

Dude! it's an Audi driver. They understand the lack of signalling thing. BMW drivers too.

I wonder if Singlespeed want a photo while I'm down there, the sick pervert...

don simon wrote:

I wonder if Singlespeed want a photo while I'm down there, the sick pervert...

Sounds like you read the Daily Mail and by 'Sick Pervert' you mean Homosexual.

SingleSpeed wrote:

don simon wrote:

I wonder if Singlespeed want a photo while I'm down there, the sick pervert...

 

Sounds like you read the Daily Mail and by 'Sick Pervert' you mean Homosexual.

Sorry dude, I use site blocking software for the daily mail so I don't inadvertently open up a page of that shite, applies for the sun too. I drive an Audi, I have a chuffing great 4x4 and own several bikes which get regular use. I voted labour, but sport a shaved head, have tattooes and love Staffies (owned 2), don't wear DMs anymore as they're overpriced crap, but do have a Harrington.

Suit and Italian shoes for work though...

How's you stereotype going now?

SNS1938 wrote:

john1967 wrote:

The cyclist gave no hand signal and the driver could only guess were the cyclist was going.

Lack of hand signals is bad. Creates the problem in the first place.

If the Audi driver was guessing though, perhaps they should have slowed down a little?

No hand signals probably  BECAUSE HE WAS ON HIS BLOODY BRAKES.

john1967 wrote:

The cyclist gave no hand signal and the driver could only guess were the cyclist was going.

Yes the cyclist gave no hand signals, however, last time I checked the law on roundabouts is GIVE PRIORITY TO VEHICLES FROM THE RIGHT.  So the lack of hand signals is completely and utterly irrelevant in this case... as the cyclist was on the roundabout and the cock in the Audi failed to obey the rules of the road.

Bassmann13 wrote:

Sorry where is the near miss?  What I saw was a cyclist cutting across lanes multiple times without any indication or change of speed, and a car in what was the lane next to him going about his business as he decided to change lanes yet again without indicating.

 

He was caught out by the speed differential between car and bike, not by the closeness of the pass.

 

If you're going to bore us all silly with propaganda and anti-driver attitude, at least choose from some of the truly awful examples doing the rounds on the internet, not things like this.

I REALLY hope you don't drive a motor vehicle. You clearly have no concept of how roundabouts are safely negotiated. Yes, the cyclist made errors, but you should NEVER undertake someone on a roundabout in case they have failed to signal their intention to leave the roundabout, and it i entirely normal and correct to exit a roundabout frm the offside lane when turning right. If you undertake you risk colliding with someone who is about to to turn off.

The driver was not "going about his business". He was being an aggressive, impatient idiot.

DaveE128 wrote:

Bassmann13 wrote:

Sorry where is the near miss?  What I saw was a cyclist cutting across lanes multiple times without any indication or change of speed, and a car in what was the lane next to him going about his business as he decided to change lanes yet again without indicating.

 

He was caught out by the speed differential between car and bike, not by the closeness of the pass.

 

If you're going to bore us all silly with propaganda and anti-driver attitude, at least choose from some of the truly awful examples doing the rounds on the internet, not things like this.

I REALLY hope you don't drive a motor vehicle. You clearly have no concept of how roundabouts are safely negotiated. Yes, the cyclist made errors, but you should NEVER undertake someone on a roundabout in case they have failed to signal their intention to leave the roundabout, and it i entirely normal and correct to exit a roundabout frm the offside lane when turning right. If you undertake you risk colliding with someone who is about to to turn off. The driver was not "going about his business". He was being an aggressive, impatient idiot.

Again, you're wrong, go learn the rules of the road as you're a danger to yourself and others, suggest some cycle training to start with and also some advanced driving instruction, the driver did nothing wrong.

BehindTheBikesheds wrote:

Again, you're wrong, go learn the rules of the road as you're a danger to yourself and others, suggest some cycle training to start with and also some advanced driving instruction, the driver did nothing wrong.

So, you just posted the image from the highway code that accompanies Rule 185. I will quote the rule for you here pointing out how it shows you are wrong (emphasis added):

Quote:

Rule 185

When reaching the roundabout you should

• give priority to traffic approaching from your right, unless directed otherwise by signs, road markings or traffic lights
• check whether road markings allow you to enter the roundabout without giving way. If so, proceed, but still look to the right before joining
• watch out for all other road users already on the roundabout; be aware they may not be signalling correctly or at all
• look forward before moving off to make sure traffic in front has moved off.

The road markings in this case do not allow entering the roundabout without giving way.

Look again at the image you posted above:

Note that the right-turning vehicle (green arrow) exits from the inside of the roundabout directly to the exit, without moving to the outer lane first. This is why "being aware they may not be signalling correctly" means that the silver car at top left must not enter the roundabout onto the outer lane, even if the green car above-left of centre is not indicating left.

Perhaps you would care to explain how I do not know the rules of the road, and how following rule 185 means that I am a danger to myself or others? So you're saying that what this Audi driver did is safer than if he'd stopped at the give way line. Is what you really mean  "you don't take enough risks and drive too cautiously, and that means I'm likely to get impatient and drive into the back of you at a roundabout because I dangerously assume everyone drives like me and will pull out in front of traffic on roundabouts!"? 

Even if you were right, and it was perfectly safe and sensible to enter a multi-lane roundabout under such circumstances, you might note from the satellite photo posted earlier that this roundabout does not have clearly marked lanes all the way round, so you're even more likely to run into trouble on this one.

Having looked at the satellite photo I don't think the cyclist actually did anything wrong except for not signalling, up to the point of having to take evasive action. The geometry of the roundabout is such that the left hand lane on the approach is only suitable for turning left. This is very poor road design as the lane is not marked left turn only. This may be why the cyclist hesitated before moving to the right hand lane. He ends up going all over the place and up the wrong side of the exit road only after taking evasive action to avoid being hit by the Audi driver. I suspect he was a bit shaken up and this had something to do with wobbling around on the wrong side of the road afterwards.

BehindTheBikesheds wrote:

Again, you're wrong, go learn the rules of the road as you're a danger to yourself and others, suggest some cycle training to start with and also some advanced driving instruction, the driver did nothing wrong.

So, you just posted the image from the highway code that accompanies Rule 185. I will quote the rule for you here pointing out how it shows you are wrong (emphasis added):

Quote:

Rule 185

When reaching the roundabout you should

• give priority to traffic approaching from your right, unless directed otherwise by signs, road markings or traffic lights
• check whether road markings allow you to enter the roundabout without giving way. If so, proceed, but still look to the right before joining
• watch out for all other road users already on the roundabout; be aware they may not be signalling correctly or at all
• look forward before moving off to make sure traffic in front has moved off.

The road markings in this case do not allow entering the roundabout without giving way.

Look again at the image you posted above:

Note that the right-turning vehicle (green arrow) exits from the inside of the roundabout directly to the exit, without moving to the outer lane first. This is why "being aware they may not be signalling correctly" means that the silver car at top left must not enter the roundabout onto the outer lane, even if the green car above-left of centre is not indicating left.

Perhaps you would care to explain how I do not know the rules of the road, and how following rule 185 means that I am a danger to myself or others? So you're saying that what this Audi driver did is safer than if he'd stopped at the give way line. Is what you really mean  "you don't take enough risks and drive too cautiously, and that means I'm likely to get impatient and drive into the back of you at a roundabout because I dangerously assume everyone drives like me and will pull out in front of traffic on roundabouts!"? 

Even if you were right, and it was perfectly safe and sensible to enter a multi-lane roundabout under such circumstances, you might note from the satellite photo posted earlier that this roundabout does not have clearly marked lanes all the way round, so you're even more likely to run into trouble on this one.

Having looked at the satellite photo I don't think the cyclist actually did anything wrong except for not signalling, up to the point of having to take evasive action. The geometry of the roundabout is such that the left hand lane on the approach is only suitable for turning left. This is very poor road design as the lane is not marked left turn only. This may be why the cyclist hesitated before moving to the right hand lane. He ends up going all over the place and up the wrong side of the exit road only after taking evasive action to avoid being hit by the Audi driver. I suspect he was a bit shaken up and this had something to do with wobbling around on the wrong side of the road afterwards.

DaveE128 wrote:

BehindTheBikesheds wrote:

Again, you're wrong, go learn the rules of the road as you're a danger to yourself and others, suggest some cycle training to start with and also some advanced driving instruction, the driver did nothing wrong.

So, you just posted the image from the highway code that accompanies Rule 185. I will quote the rule for you here pointing out how it shows you are wrong (emphasis added):

Quote:

Rule 185

When reaching the roundabout you should

• give priority to traffic approaching from your right, unless directed otherwise by signs, road markings or traffic lights
• check whether road markings allow you to enter the roundabout without giving way. If so, proceed, but still look to the right before joining
• watch out for all other road users already on the roundabout; be aware they may not be signalling correctly or at all
• look forward before moving off to make sure traffic in front has moved off.

The road markings in this case do not allow entering the roundabout without giving way.

Look again at the image you posted above:

Note that the right-turning vehicle (green arrow) exits from the inside of the roundabout directly to the exit, without moving to the outer lane first. This is why "being aware they may not be signalling correctly" means that the silver car at top left must not enter the roundabout onto the outer lane, even if the green car above-left of centre is not indicating left.

Perhaps you would care to explain how I do not know the rules of the road, and how following rule 185 means that I am a danger to myself or others? So you're saying that what this Audi driver did is safer than if he'd stopped at the give way line. Is what you really mean  "you don't take enough risks and drive too cautiously, and that means I'm likely to get impatient and drive into the back of you at a roundabout because I dangerously assume everyone drives like me and will pull out in front of traffic on roundabouts!"? 

Even if you were right, and it was perfectly safe and sensible to enter a multi-lane roundabout under such circumstances, you might note from the satellite photo posted earlier that this roundabout does not have clearly marked lanes all the way round, so you're even more likely to run into trouble on this one.

Having looked at the satellite photo I don't think the cyclist actually did anything wrong except for not signalling, up to the point of having to take evasive action. The geometry of the roundabout is such that the left hand lane on the approach is only suitable for turning left. This is very poor road design as the lane is not marked left turn only. This may be why the cyclist hesitated before moving to the right hand lane. He ends up going all over the place and up the wrong side of the exit road only after taking evasive action to avoid being hit by the Audi driver. I suspect he was a bit shaken up and this had something to do with wobbling around on the wrong side of the road afterwards.

The motorist took an empty lane and did not impede onto anyone in that lane thus 'gave way'

The cyclist changed lanes from a position from the far right of the right hand side lane (he was very near the apex of the roundabout) so would suggest he was going to exit into  lane two of the dual ahead or turn right. he chose to do neither, in fact he braked when seeing the the lane next to him was no longer clear and then turned abruptly left which made this into something closer than it should have being.

If he was intending to make it into the exit he went down on the wrong side he was even more in the wrong position.

Luckily the Audi driver held his line in his CLEAR lane and, wasn't going particularly fast, he did not deviate at the last second, from the wrong lane with no signal unlike the person riding a bike  who was trying to cut the roundabout so was in the wrong lane for the exit/lane he intended no matter which way you look at it.

You can't just change lanes and your exit lane willy nilly whether that be on a roundabout, motorway or wherever, the onus here is on the cyclist to take the correct lane on approach, keep to his lane and if you fuck it up go around again.

Here is an example on my doorstep, there's an elongated/oval 'rounadbout' with  5 exits, on approach to the last but one exit I change lanes from the inside (because it's a right turn only lane) and transition across into the left lane at around point 'B' and hold a right of lane position just enough for me to control that lane but give enough space to my left in case of encroachment ( I'm exiting out of screen grab to the right of frame to an acute 2 lane left exit so need to be right of lane anyhow for safety and to stop overtakes) .

I'm already in my lane just as I pass the last exit, I'm already in the process of transitioning from the inside lane by being to the left of the lane (again to prevent an overtake at last second).

Going from the video the person here is effectively at point A in my screen grab and is already well past the exit then decides to cut across at an acute angle (across long dashed lines which is clear in the HC Rule 127, "do not cross unless clear") when it would appear to any normal person that they were carrying on in that lane and by entering into the clear lane you are not impeding anyone.

Sorry but the cyclists positioning both on approach and lane discipline (or lack thereof) and the fact they were clearly trying to cut the angle on the roundabout  (Again contra to rule 127) puts this solely at the feet of the person riding the bike.

BehindTheBikesheds wrote:

DaveE128 wrote:

BehindTheBikesheds wrote:

Again, you're wrong, go learn the rules of the road as you're a danger to yourself and others, suggest some cycle training to start with and also some advanced driving instruction, the driver did nothing wrong.

So, you just posted the image from the highway code that accompanies Rule 185. I will quote the rule for you here pointing out how it shows you are wrong (emphasis added):

Quote:

Rule 185

When reaching the roundabout you should

• give priority to traffic approaching from your right, unless directed otherwise by signs, road markings or traffic lights
• check whether road markings allow you to enter the roundabout without giving way. If so, proceed, but still look to the right before joining
• watch out for all other road users already on the roundabout; be aware they may not be signalling correctly or at all
• look forward before moving off to make sure traffic in front has moved off.

The road markings in this case do not allow entering the roundabout without giving way.

Look again at the image you posted above:

Note that the right-turning vehicle (green arrow) exits from the inside of the roundabout directly to the exit, without moving to the outer lane first. This is why "being aware they may not be signalling correctly" means that the silver car at top left must not enter the roundabout onto the outer lane, even if the green car above-left of centre is not indicating left.

Perhaps you would care to explain how I do not know the rules of the road, and how following rule 185 means that I am a danger to myself or others? So you're saying that what this Audi driver did is safer than if he'd stopped at the give way line. Is what you really mean  "you don't take enough risks and drive too cautiously, and that means I'm likely to get impatient and drive into the back of you at a roundabout because I dangerously assume everyone drives like me and will pull out in front of traffic on roundabouts!"? 

Even if you were right, and it was perfectly safe and sensible to enter a multi-lane roundabout under such circumstances, you might note from the satellite photo posted earlier that this roundabout does not have clearly marked lanes all the way round, so you're even more likely to run into trouble on this one.

Having looked at the satellite photo I don't think the cyclist actually did anything wrong except for not signalling, up to the point of having to take evasive action. The geometry of the roundabout is such that the left hand lane on the approach is only suitable for turning left. This is very poor road design as the lane is not marked left turn only. This may be why the cyclist hesitated before moving to the right hand lane. He ends up going all over the place and up the wrong side of the exit road only after taking evasive action to avoid being hit by the Audi driver. I suspect he was a bit shaken up and this had something to do with wobbling around on the wrong side of the road afterwards.

The motorist took an empty lane and did not impede onto anyone in that lane thus 'gave way'

The cyclist changed lanes from a position from the far right of the right hand side lane (he was very near the apex of the roundabout) so would suggest he was going to exit into  lane two of the dual ahead or turn right. he chose to do neither, in fact he braked when seeing the the lane next to him was no longer clear and then turned abruptly left which made this into something closer than it should have being.

If he was intending to make it into the exit he went down on the wrong side he was even more in the wrong position.

Luckily the Audi driver held his line in his CLEAR lane and, wasn't going particularly fast, he did not deviate at the last second, from the wrong lane with no signal unlike the person riding a bike  who was trying to cut the roundabout so was in the wrong lane for the exit/lane he intended no matter which way you look at it.

You can't just change lanes and your exit lane willy nilly whether that be on a roundabout, motorway or wherever, the onus here is on the cyclist to take the correct lane on approach, keep to his lane and if you fuck it up go around again.

Here is an example on my doorstep, there's an elongated/oval 'rounadbout' with  5 exits, on approach to the last but one exit I change lanes from the inside (because it's a right turn only lane) and transition across into the left lane at around point 'B' and hold a right of lane position just enough for me to control that lane but give enough space to my left in case of encroachment ( I'm exiting out of screen grab to the right of frame to an acute 2 lane left exit so need to be right of lane anyhow for safety and to stop overtakes) .

I'm already in my lane just as I pass the last exit, I'm already in the process of transitioning from the inside lane by being to the left of the lane (again to prevent an overtake at last second).

Going from the video the person here is effectively at point A in my screen grab and is already well past the exit then decides to cut across at an acute angle (across long dashed lines which is clear in the HC Rule 127, "do not cross unless clear") when it would appear to any normal person that they were carrying on in that lane and by entering into the clear lane you are not impeding anyone.

Sorry but the cyclists positioning both on approach and lane discipline (or lack thereof) and the fact they were clearly trying to cut the angle on the roundabout  (Again contra to rule 127) puts this solely at the feet of the person riding the bike.

Right, so compare what you are saying with HC rule 186:

Quote:

When taking an exit to the right or going full circle, unless signs or markings indicate otherwise

signal right and approach in the right-hand lane
keep to the right on the roundabout until you need to change lanes to exit the roundabout
signal left after you have passed the exit before the one you want.

Also compare again to the image from the highway code. The rules of the road say to stay in the right hand lane until you need to move left to exit. Now you might argue that there is some ambiguity in the wording about exactly how soon you should move to the left lane, but the image you already posted (bizarrely it accompanies rule 185 not 186, to which it most closely relates) makes it absolutely clear that moving left into lane B as you outline is not the correct procedure. There is a good reason for this: Do you signal left before moving left into lane B or not? If you do, you give the false impression to drivers waiting to enter the roundabout ahead that you are taking the exit visible in the photo you posted. If you do not, you are moving left without signalling which carries its own risks. However, that aside, you might think rule 186 is dumb, and decide that your procedure for exiting a roundabout it safer. This doesn't, however, mean that you can safely assume that everyone else ignores rule 186, and pull onto the roundabout in front of them or next to them when they may be about to turn left. We all know how much people forget to signal on roundabouts (especially common for people to exit a roundabout while still indicating right) and you are counting on people signalling accurately to avoid you causing an accident.

I will say it again, the audi in the original clip was not driving safely. He thought he could get away with pulling on in front of another road user, and that is not a safe thing to do.

Bassmann13 wrote:

Sorry where is the near miss?  What I saw was a cyclist cutting across lanes multiple times without any indication or change of speed, and a car in what was the lane next to him going about his business as he decided to change lanes yet again without indicating.

 

He was caught out by the speed differential between car and bike, not by the closeness of the pass.

 

If you're going to bore us all silly with propaganda and anti-driver attitude, at least choose from some of the truly awful examples doing the rounds on the internet, not things like this.

It is a bit of a tricky one this one... I had to watch it a few times before I got it.

It starts with quite an unusual roundabout layout where the left lane is for the first exit only and the right lane for all other exits. Perhaps this took the cyclist by surprise as he changed lane at the last minute.

The cyclist at first appears to weave across lanes on the roundabout, but in fact, at the start, there is only one lane. The cyclist tries to move into the left lane as that lane appears, and it is at that into that the Audi driver almost wipes him out. The cyclist then exits the roundabout on the wrong side of the road, possibly in a state of shock.

jh27 wrote:

Bassmann13 wrote:

Sorry where is the near miss?  What I saw was a cyclist cutting across lanes multiple times without any indication or change of speed, and a car in what was the lane next to him going about his business as he decided to change lanes yet again without indicating.

 

He was caught out by the speed differential between car and bike, not by the closeness of the pass.

 

If you're going to bore us all silly with propaganda and anti-driver attitude, at least choose from some of the truly awful examples doing the rounds on the internet, not things like this.

It is a bit of a tricky one this one... I had to watch it a few times before I got it. It starts with quite an unusual roundabout layout where the left lane is for the first exit only and the right lane for all other exits. Perhaps this took the cyclist by surprise as he changed lane at the last minute. The cyclist at first appears to weave across lanes on the roundabout, but in fact, at the start, there is only one lane. The cyclist tries to move into the left lane as that lane appears, and it is at that into that the Audi driver almost wipes him out. The cyclist then exits the roundabout on the wrong side of the road, possibly in a state of shock.

There are TWO lanes on approach, the left lane is not a left turn only, you are decieved by the dust on the road into thinking there is only one lane.

the cyclist should have being in the left lane on approach (he changes from left to right) and maintained that lane until his exit either into the road it looks like he was aiming for (the one he goes down the wrong side of) or the dual carriageway.

That he tries to cut the roundabout is the problem and why it's his fault alone. you cannot just change lanes without checking they are clear, the long dashed lines signify this as a hazard and that you MUST ensure that the lane is clear before entering it, he didn't, nor bothered shoulder checking or indicating despite him being in the incorrect lane/position and tried to bully his way into a lane that had another road user in it.

As i said previously, switch these around and people would be playing merry hell with the car driving cutting across the lane into a cyclist.

thx1138 wrote:

I had a run in with an Audi RS4 driver on Sunday who threatened to 'break' me. Sadly I don't have a camera mounted but was thinking yesterday that Audi drivers are the worst bunch of self-entitled twats n the road. 

I am now shopping for a camera.

And all cyclists run red lights... What total drivel you write. On the one hand we cyclists hate being pigeon holed and then you write this. All the Audi drivers I know are law abiding respectful drivers.

kevvjj wrote:

thx1138 wrote:

I had a run in with an Audi RS4 driver on Sunday who threatened to 'break' me. Sadly I don't have a camera mounted but was thinking yesterday that Audi drivers are the worst bunch of self-entitled twats n the road. 

I am now shopping for a camera.

And all cyclists run red lights... What total drivel you write. On the one hand we cyclists hate being pigeon holed and then you write this. All the Audi drivers I know are law abiding respectful drivers.

 

It's all the Audi drivers you don't know that are the problem. The most self-entitled twunts ever.

Pink shirt big collar brown brogues chunky watch rayban faced iphone 7 gotta take this call mate two peronis please mate can I get a steak and chips on a slate mate watching the game at the weekend mate marketing / estate agent / private finance / executive sales spray tan hipster hair steampunk tats muthafckrs.

kevvjj wrote:

thx1138 wrote:

I had a run in with an Audi RS4 driver on Sunday who threatened to 'break' me. Sadly I don't have a camera mounted but was thinking yesterday that Audi drivers are the worst bunch of self-entitled twats n the road. 

I am now shopping for a camera.

And all cyclists run red lights... What total drivel you write. On the one hand we cyclists hate being pigeon holed and then you write this. All the Audi drivers I know are law abiding respectful drivers.

 

Can I pigeon hole all moped riders as total twats?

thx1138 wrote:

I had a run in with an Audi RS4 driver on Sunday who threatened to 'break' me. Sadly I don't have a camera mounted but was thinking yesterday that Audi drivers are the worst bunch of self-entitled twats n the road. 

I am now shopping for a camera.

I think i've found him.....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygQvB6OjHOU

mikepridmorewood wrote:

May not get a prosecution but being reminded by a letter or chat that this sort of driving isn't really acceptable may work in some cases. 

From my discussions with police they only get involved if a prosecution is likely, the polite word or letter never happens.

Alan Williams wrote:

Sorry CC but I don't think that's a good example of a near miss. Imho the cyclist should have been better positioned and for gawd sake use hand signals

Cyclist in right turn lane moves to go into other lane without indicating. Surprised to find it full.

No offence by Audi as far as I can see.

Alan Williams wrote:

Sorry CC but I don't think that's a good example of a near miss. Imho the cyclist should have been better positioned and for gawd sake use hand signals

My thoughts exactly this is a good example of how to not to position yourself.