Philippa York, who as Robert Millar was first Briton to win a jersey at Tour de France, joins ITV4 commentary team

Mungecrundle wrote:

If she has any doubts about how cycling fans might react to her new and improved gender status, then I hope she comes to this website to read the comments.

I'm proud to be a road.cc reader today.

then mosey on over to Cycling News or Rouleur and you'll see that they even much more effusively supportive.  Even the Daily Mail knuckle-dragging trolls don't see this as news. A happy day indeed.  

A hero/heroine returns even more heroic than before.  How often does that happen?

Jack Osbourne snr wrote:

I'm delighted with this news on a number of levels... 

I was a huge fan of Robert as a rider and was always sad that he withdrew from public view and wasn't around to share his experiences.

Not only are his experiences accessible again but as Philippa the person that was Robert is now likely to be happier than they ever were previously.

Can't wait for the commentary to begin! I might well have a tear in my eye.

I would say that with delight is also how I took this news. 

The best cycling writer in the business, brilliant to potentially have that back on a more regular level.

But...the biggest thing is knowing one of my childhood heroes is at a place of happiness and no longer feeling the need to hide in the shadows.

As for how people will refer to her past... I'd suggest as adults we can probably work it out. 

Yorkshire wallet wrote:

Sport is facing lots dilemmas with sort of situation. Women's sport in particular seems at risk from people not wanting to draw a line in the sand. Look at MMA and Fallon Fox, born a male, matured a (muscular) male, starts taking female hormones and then is allowed to compete as a female to literally break her opponents face. You don't just lose all the advantages of being male overnight.

I read something else about a transgender athlete being allowed to compete against women before they had even started any sort of physical reassignment, which is clearly wrong.

What is going on in the main story makes no difference to anyone but for currently active athletes it raises a lot of questions and if was a biologically born female I'd probably feel very much at a disadvantage against someone transitioning.

This is probably something for the biological passport, so that an athlete has to have the right, female, hormone levels for 2 years, consistently.  Same as if a cis-female athlete (born a woman) took shedloads of testosterone to build muscle and then went off them for a week or two before competition. 

And to another comment on here: the physical reassignment is irrelevant.  It's about hormones not plumbing.

Simontuck wrote:

. I struggle to think of any riders that have even come out as gay (which I am aware is not the same as being TG)

Multiple World Champion, Time Trial legend and former Le Groupement team mate of Millar's Mr Graeme Obree is certainly one.

You may have heard of him, what with the full length feature films and all!

Anyway, best of luck with the commentary Philippa, look forward to it.

Mungecrundle wrote:

Cycling. It's all about the legs not what's between them. Best of luck to Philippa.

Yeah, tell that to the broadcasters and the sponsors!

madcarew wrote:

Simon, I think your Lizzie Deignan comment made the point perfectly. 

Well it didn't, did it? Her name changed because she got married, not because she chose to be identfied as a completely different person.  

BehindTheBikesheds was just stating fact and questioning the continutity of the records - after all if you want to be technical about it the article is stating a woman won stages in a mens race.....

BehindTheBikesheds wrote:

Always nice to have an ex-pro giving a viewpoint on racing and certainly one from BITD when I was first starting out, it's being too long IMHO for one of Britain's top cycling hero's.

However, surely when referring to the achievements you would use the name Robert and/or Millar, afterall it was that named person that achieved them?

"In 1985, York was arguably the strongest rider in the Vuelta and perhaps would have won the overall but for Spanish riders from different teams coming together to ensure a home winner and thwart her efforts."

This should read 'Millar' and 'his' because Phillipa York did not exist.

I've no problem whatsoever with Miss York, whatever gender or orientation she identifies with is none of my business, however it's incorrect to name her/new persona as the achiever in the cycling world when it was Robert Millar that had done so.
 

You don't know that and it's not for you to decide.

Simon_MacMichael wrote:

BehindTheBikesheds wrote:

This should read 'Millar' and 'his' because Phillipa York did not exist.

I've no problem whatsoever with Miss York, whatever gender or orientation she identifies with is none of my business, however it's incorrect to name her/new persona as the achiever in the cycling world when it was Robert Millar that had done so

Philippa (check your spelling) did exist, she just went by a different name back then. 

She's won a polka-dot jersey at the Tour de France. You?

Its not always that straightforward. A friend of mine who transitioned says that her former (male) self is dead, and doesn't like talking about about anything anything that happened before she existed because it brings back bad memories.

Simon_MacMichael wrote:

BehindTheBikesheds wrote:

This should read 'Millar' and 'his' because Phillipa York did not exist.

I've no problem whatsoever with Miss York, whatever gender or orientation she identifies with is none of my business, however it's incorrect to name her/new persona as the achiever in the cycling world when it was Robert Millar that had done so

Philippa (check your spelling) did exist, she just went by a different name back then. 

She's won a polka-dot jersey at the Tour de France. You?

Well, it's not clear as whether she'd prefer to identify as Robert or Philippa in her earlier career  (or whether it's much of an issue), but

'Asked how she has dealt in recent years with the fact that the world of cycling had one image of her and she had another, York says: “I can only deal with that by putting the Robert part of my life into one box and the life I live now into another." '

might suggest she's fine with Robert, and the interview article itself seems to distinguish between then and now, presumably with her agreement (tho' the Guardian's likely to be sensitive to that, I'd expect).

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/jul/06/philippa-york-gender-trans...

Jackson wrote:

BehindTheBikesheds wrote:

Always nice to have an ex-pro giving a viewpoint on racing and certainly one from BITD when I was first starting out, it's being too long IMHO for one of Britain's top cycling hero's.

However, surely when referring to the achievements you would use the name Robert and/or Millar, afterall it was that named person that achieved them?

"In 1985, York was arguably the strongest rider in the Vuelta and perhaps would have won the overall but for Spanish riders from different teams coming together to ensure a home winner and thwart her efforts."

This should read 'Millar' and 'his' because Phillipa York did not exist.

I've no problem whatsoever with Miss York, whatever gender or orientation she identifies with is none of my business, however it's incorrect to name her/new persona as the achiever in the cycling world when it was Robert Millar that had done so.
 

You don't know that and it's not for you to decide.

Yes I do know that and it's not for Miss York to decide either even though if you'd bothered to read you'd have seen that she herself states that it is/was Robert Miller whom was the cyclist that did the achievements and that what she is now is a different person.

The person that rode those races was Mr Robert Millar, a person whom themselves identified as being a male, was registered as a male and used a male name, it is that person/identity that rode to be one of the best known cyclists.

I don't care what name, what sex, orientation you are however just because you change that does not mean you can simply change the named person who did x BEFORE you decided you wanted to be something/someone else.

did Caitlyn Jenner win the Decathlon gold medal and have the World record for that event or was it Bruce Jenner? It cannot have being Miss Jenner as she did not exist nor would she have competed as a woman in any case.

BehindTheBikesheds wrote:

Jackson wrote:

BehindTheBikesheds wrote:

Always nice to have an ex-pro giving a viewpoint on racing and certainly one from BITD when I was first starting out, it's being too long IMHO for one of Britain's top cycling hero's.

However, surely when referring to the achievements you would use the name Robert and/or Millar, afterall it was that named person that achieved them?

"In 1985, York was arguably the strongest rider in the Vuelta and perhaps would have won the overall but for Spanish riders from different teams coming together to ensure a home winner and thwart her efforts."

This should read 'Millar' and 'his' because Phillipa York did not exist.

I've no problem whatsoever with Miss York, whatever gender or orientation she identifies with is none of my business, however it's incorrect to name her/new persona as the achiever in the cycling world when it was Robert Millar that had done so.
 

You don't know that and it's not for you to decide.

Yes I do know that and it's not for Miss York to decide either even though if you'd bothered to read you'd have seen that she herself states that it is/was Robert Miller whom was the cyclist that did the achievements and that what she is now is a different person.

The person that rode those races was Mr Robert Millar, a person whom themselves identified as being a male, was registered as a male and used a male name, it is that person/identity that rode to be one of the best known cyclists.

I don't care what name, what sex, orientation you are however just because you change that does not mean you can simply change the named person who did x BEFORE you decided you wanted to be something/someone else.

did Caitlyn Jenner win the Decathlon gold medal and have the World record for that event or was it Bruce Jenner? It cannot have being Miss Jenner as she did not exist nor would she have competed as a woman in any case.

Ok, you're obviously very concerned about it for some reason. 

Jackson wrote:

BehindTheBikesheds wrote:

Jackson wrote:

BehindTheBikesheds wrote:

Always nice to have an ex-pro giving a viewpoint on racing and certainly one from BITD when I was first starting out, it's being too long IMHO for one of Britain's top cycling hero's.

However, surely when referring to the achievements you would use the name Robert and/or Millar, afterall it was that named person that achieved them?

"In 1985, York was arguably the strongest rider in the Vuelta and perhaps would have won the overall but for Spanish riders from different teams coming together to ensure a home winner and thwart her efforts."

This should read 'Millar' and 'his' because Phillipa York did not exist.

I've no problem whatsoever with Miss York, whatever gender or orientation she identifies with is none of my business, however it's incorrect to name her/new persona as the achiever in the cycling world when it was Robert Millar that had done so.
 

You don't know that and it's not for you to decide.

Yes I do know that and it's not for Miss York to decide either even though if you'd bothered to read you'd have seen that she herself states that it is/was Robert Miller whom was the cyclist that did the achievements and that what she is now is a different person.

The person that rode those races was Mr Robert Millar, a person whom themselves identified as being a male, was registered as a male and used a male name, it is that person/identity that rode to be one of the best known cyclists.

I don't care what name, what sex, orientation you are however just because you change that does not mean you can simply change the named person who did x BEFORE you decided you wanted to be something/someone else.

did Caitlyn Jenner win the Decathlon gold medal and have the World record for that event or was it Bruce Jenner? It cannot have being Miss Jenner as she did not exist nor would she have competed as a woman in any case.

Ok, you're obviously very concerned about it for some reason. 

I pointed out a clear factual inaccuracy, the only thing I'm concerned about is putting you in your place as you were wanting to tell me I was wrong when in fact it's you that is wrong and that I prove so going by the words of the person in question.

clearly even when proven you are wrong you're obviously concerned to keep the argument going, why are you so concerned, what reason are you so concerned about to keep making a point about something that is proven by the person in question to be accurate and by fact of history and just how life works?

Are you concerned to prove that you know nothing and that you're still wrong, well done, you proved it.

Go be concerned about the fact you got made to look like a chimp who will start an argument based on absolutely zero.

BehindTheBikesheds wrote:

, whatever gender or orientation she identifies with is none of my business,
 

I think you meant to stop there ...

riotgibbon wrote:

BehindTheBikesheds wrote:

, whatever gender or orientation she identifies with is none of my business,  

 

I think you meant to stop there ...

Er, no i didn't. the gender is not the issue here, seemingly it is for you. how can a person who did not exist and by the fact that Miss York herself states that that person is someone different be written as if that she was the successful professional cyclist when clearly she isn't.

The cyclist was Robert Millar, it's not disresepctful to make this clear, it was this person who identified as male, used a male name, went to male changing rooms, dressed as a male and registered as a male that rode in the events being wrongfully accredited by this outlet and any others, to Miss York.

This isn't an attack this is about accuracy, Miss York DID NOT compete as a cyclist in any form whatsoever that we are talking about, that was Robert Millar whom by her own admission is a different person.

Maybe you should go bother to read what Miss York has actually said!

Don't bother replying you should stop right there with your pathetic response!