Jobseekers 'on their bikes' to get to shift work without public transport in Yorkshire

brooksby wrote:

Can I just add to this discussion that "the South" does not equal "London".  Surely the real discussion should be on "money spent in London" vs "money spent everywhere outside London"?

They are very different, it's true. The comments here seem mostly just a bit knockabout, probably not to be taken to seriously - although they may reflect deeply-held prejudices.

The ONS recently produced data on both public spending and income for the UK, summarised here: www.theweek.co.uk/checked-out/84933/does-london-really-subsidise-the-uk

tarquin_foxglove wrote:

This makes so much sense.

I was at a mini-conference organised by a group of local authorities in my region about getting people into work.

A lack of candidates was limiting the ability of firms to grow so there were jobs but not near areas of highest unemployment or having frequent public transport (the business & retail parks etc having been built outside of urban centres) and having to get at least two modes of public transport followed by a long walk etc was a barrier to entering employment through cost, time & perception.

As the crow flies the distances weren't that great (c.10 miles at most) between an area of high unemployment & an area of high job vacancies, so I suggested that they should invest in providing safe cycle infrastructure and give them recycled bikes to enable, cheap, fast convenient travel.

The response was that politically it wouldn't be supported as politicians want everyone to drive as it is considered to be an indicator of wealth & success and they didn't think that job seekers would go for it either.

So the main recommendations of the conference were to initiate car clubs, car sharing and subsidised hire of mopeds.

smdh

Regardless of the council's reasoning I don't think a 10 mile each way cycle commute is a realistic option for a lot of people. My commute to work is about 8 miles each way and the first couple of times I did it (having not been on a bike in years) required days of rest to recover from. Expecting people to do that at all hours of the day in all weathers is just too much imo, especially if they're then going to be on their feet for the next 10 hours in Tesco.

I would argue that if these businesses want to take advantage of the cheaper land on the out of town retail parks then they should be taking responsibility for the staff that need to get to them at all hours of the day. If that means a shuttle bus to the nearest bus stop after work, or coordinating shift changes with the other shops so that a bus back to town at 11pm is economically viable for the bus company then do that.

I remember when I used to work in a pub years ago that the pub paid for our taxi home after an evening shift because there was no public transport at that time. Why should these employers, who chose to set up away from the places people live, not have a similar responsiblity to their staff?

tarquin_foxglove wrote:

This makes so much sense.

Which is why it won't happen.

You can't let people get all independent and not being so reliant on the car & oil industries. Think of the economy!

And how are they supposed to justify all the road-building?

check12 wrote:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/north-south-divide-transpo...

Getting a bit away from the story to a much wider issue - but it's an interesting one (to me!)

Clearly London's public transport network has a lot of public spending (how else are staff paid, vehicles bought/maintained/fuelled, etc?). Elsewhere, people mostly use private transport so private spending is higher.

Spending is only half the picture though: London's public transport network is heavily used and also generates huge income. So London-centric rail franchsises, for example, often return net contributions to public coffers (e.g. in 2015/16 Thameslink alone paid a premium of £279 million, whereas Northern received £249m). 

http://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/SN01343h...

London's extensive bus network is expensive to provide but offset by income from the congestion charge as well as huge numbers of passengers, so it is much less subsidised per passenger km than elsewhere:

www.gov.uk/government/publications/bus-subsidy-per-passenger-journey

Transport is only one, small part of the overall public income and spending picture: www.theweek.co.uk/checked-out/84933/does-london-really-subsidise-the-uk

There's a big debate about spending and taxation across the UK, and no definitive answers. But the process isn't helped by extrapolating from very selective data taken out of context.

check12 wrote:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/north-south-divide-transpo...

That explains why transport infrastructure is so shite here in the SW.

Ramuz wrote:

Always wondered why Northerners, who go to great lengths to point out how tough they are, have to chauffeur themselves around, when Southern Softies manage to get about in larger numbers using a bit of physical effort.

Really? And have you found any plausible explanations?

My own guess is it's cause we're all knackered from giving you lot wedgies and nicking your dinner money - but do please post your findings. Some of us can read.

davel wrote:

Ramuz wrote:

Always wondered why Northerners, who go to great lengths to point out how tough they are, have to chauffeur themselves around, when Southern Softies manage to get about in larger numbers using a bit of physical effort.

Really? And have you found any plausible explanations? My own guess is it's cause we're all knackered from giving you lot wedgies and nicking your dinner money - but do please post your findings. Some of us can read.

Now Davel, I know there are some genuine Northerners like yourself who do ride bikes. Hats off to them. But there are many who would not dream of using one for transport, especially in West Yorkshire - I used to live there!

Ramuz wrote:

davel wrote:

Ramuz wrote:

Always wondered why Northerners, who go to great lengths to point out how tough they are, have to chauffeur themselves around, when Southern Softies manage to get about in larger numbers using a bit of physical effort.

Really? And have you found any plausible explanations? My own guess is it's cause we're all knackered from giving you lot wedgies and nicking your dinner money - but do please post your findings. Some of us can read.

Now Davel, I know there are some genuine Northerners like yourself who do ride bikes. Hats off to them. But there are many who would not dream of using one for transport, especially in West Yorkshire - I used to live there!

Maybe its because London gets £350m spent on cycling over 10 years, in Leeds we have got £20m and you expect people to feel safe?  Also its all well on a flat route but through in some climbs and lack of work facilities and I who is a commuter by bike can see why others do not.  Also we get worse weather.