Near Miss of the Day 160: Driver tailgates cyclist, makes close pass on brow of hill and blind bend ... and gets a call from police

KendalRed wrote:

So the first step might be when the next census happens, lets all put 'Cyclist' as our religion. Is it not the case that if a certain amount of people do this, then it has to be recognised as such?

I would change from 'Jedi' to Cyclist'.

 

May the force be with us.

Unfortunately, it doesn't quite work like that. When there's more than a certain number, it just means  that they count them as a separate total rather than it becoming an "official" religion.

I do like the announcement that The Office of National Statistics made back in 2001: "390,000 Jedi there are".

Mungecrundle wrote:

Equating the perceived unfairness of the legal system to cyclists with some of the absolute heinous crimes that other minorities have suffered is just embarrasing. If you think different then please think about how many cyclists have been lynched or chemically castrated or imprisoned or barred from employment for the act of just cycling on the public highway.

I'm playing devil's advocate slighty, but one could point out that cyclists have been killed or seriously injured for that.

I don't think it has to be of the same degree for there to be parallels.  The common theme would be that power always gets abused, even by people who are in other respects 'good'.  If someone has power over others around them, there's a risk they'll start taking advantage of that, even without realising they are doing so.

And another commonality is that the solution might be better to focus on removing or alleviating those power differences, rather than pleading with those with power to behave better.

Mungecrundle wrote:

As a straight, white, middle class, middle aged, non disabled man, one thing I know, sure as shit, is that I have not the slightest comprehension of what it must be like to be on the wrong end of discrimination.

Maybe I am fortunate in that any run-ins I have had whilst riding a bike are nothing (in my view) more than basic bad road manners and as we are all aware it does not matter whether you drive, ride, cycle or walk to be on the wrong end of a cockwomble in charge of any form of mechanical transport or sometimes even a pair of shoes. Maybe some people have a natural ability to rub others up the wrong way, but discrimination this is not.

Equating the perceived unfairness of the legal system to cyclists with some of the absolute heinous crimes that other minorities have suffered is just embarrasing. If you think different then please think about how many cyclists have been lynched or chemically castrated or imprisoned or barred from employment for the act of just cycling on the public highway.

I agree - they can't be equated.

But also, there have been plenty of cyclists that have lost their lives just for cycling on the public highway although most of the time that's probably not to do with explicit discrimination.

What I fail to understand is why it is socially acceptable to demonise cyclists.

Mungecrundle wrote:

As a straight, white, middle class, middle aged, non disabled man, one thing I know, sure as shit, is that I have not the slightest comprehension of what it must be like to be on the wrong end of discrimination.

Surely at some point in your life you've come across somebody that didn't like you for whatever reason? In the absence of other races to pick on then there's plenty of ways people can bullied and put on the sidelines. I went to school with 240 in the year and 2! non-whites. All the shit behaviour was white on white and believe me there were plenty of twats in that year.

I did learn one thing at school and it's that bullies are cowards is a load of shit. The bullies were usually hard nuts surrounded by cowards. 

Mungecrundle wrote:

As a straight, white, middle class, middle aged, non disabled man, one thing I know, sure as shit, is that I have not the slightest comprehension of what it must be like to be on the wrong end of discrimination.

Maybe I am fortunate in that any run-ins I have had whilst riding a bike are nothing (in my view) more than basic bad road manners and as we are all aware it does not matter whether you drive, ride, cycle or walk to be on the wrong end of a cockwomble in charge of any form of mechanical transport or sometimes even a pair of shoes. Maybe some people have a natural ability to rub others up the wrong way, but discrimination this is not.

Equating the perceived unfairness of the legal system to cyclists with some of the absolute heinous crimes that other minorities have suffered is just embarrasing. If you think different then please think about how many cyclists have been lynched or chemically castrated or imprisoned or barred from employment for the act of just cycling on the public highway.

So what you're saying is you don't understand, if you can't see it then that's down to you! If you've never felt fear of harm as a person riding a bike, never thought someone had ill will toward you either directly, through the media or generally in the way laws are made or upheld/policed then good for you, I'm pleased that you have such an idyllic life as a bike rider. The rest of us don't, this is reflected in the hate, ill will, injury and even death that occurs every single day

Seriously, calling people embarressing because you can't join the dots and see the similarities/parallels or simply can't respect valid opinions especially when you've made no attempt to put forward any counter argument, well that's actually embarressing yourself.

BehindTheBikesheds wrote:

Mungecrundle wrote:

As a straight, white, middle class, middle aged, non disabled man, one thing I know, sure as shit, is that I have not the slightest comprehension of what it must be like to be on the wrong end of discrimination.

Maybe I am fortunate in that any run-ins I have had whilst riding a bike are nothing (in my view) more than basic bad road manners and as we are all aware it does not matter whether you drive, ride, cycle or walk to be on the wrong end of a cockwomble in charge of any form of mechanical transport or sometimes even a pair of shoes. Maybe some people have a natural ability to rub others up the wrong way, but discrimination this is not.

Equating the perceived unfairness of the legal system to cyclists with some of the absolute heinous crimes that other minorities have suffered is just embarrasing. If you think different then please think about how many cyclists have been lynched or chemically castrated or imprisoned or barred from employment for the act of just cycling on the public highway.

So what you're saying is you don't understand, if you can't see it then that's down to you! If you've never felt fear of harm as a person riding a bike, never thought someone had ill will toward you either directly, through the media or generally in the way laws are made or upheld/policed then good for you, I'm pleased that you have such an idyllic life as a bike rider. The rest of us don't, this is reflected in the hate, ill will, injury and even death that occurs every single day

Seriously, calling people embarressing because you can't join the dots and see the similarities/parallels or simply can't respect valid opinions especially when you've made no attempt to put forward any counter argument, well that's actually embarressing yourself.

And the last time that cyclists were sent to gas chambers, or had their houses burnt down and had to flee from the country of their birth, or were habitually paid less than their car driving colleagues for doing the same work or were sent to prison for just riding a bicycle or denied the vote or hung from trees by a lynch mob of torch wielding thugs was when exactly?

Nobody likes being picked on, but have a little perspective.

Mungecrundle wrote:

BehindTheBikesheds wrote:

Mungecrundle wrote:

As a straight, white, middle class, middle aged, non disabled man, one thing I know, sure as shit, is that I have not the slightest comprehension of what it must be like to be on the wrong end of discrimination.

Maybe I am fortunate in that any run-ins I have had whilst riding a bike are nothing (in my view) more than basic bad road manners and as we are all aware it does not matter whether you drive, ride, cycle or walk to be on the wrong end of a cockwomble in charge of any form of mechanical transport or sometimes even a pair of shoes. Maybe some people have a natural ability to rub others up the wrong way, but discrimination this is not.

Equating the perceived unfairness of the legal system to cyclists with some of the absolute heinous crimes that other minorities have suffered is just embarrasing. If you think different then please think about how many cyclists have been lynched or chemically castrated or imprisoned or barred from employment for the act of just cycling on the public highway.

So what you're saying is you don't understand, if you can't see it then that's down to you! If you've never felt fear of harm as a person riding a bike, never thought someone had ill will toward you either directly, through the media or generally in the way laws are made or upheld/policed then good for you, I'm pleased that you have such an idyllic life as a bike rider. The rest of us don't, this is reflected in the hate, ill will, injury and even death that occurs every single day

Seriously, calling people embarressing because you can't join the dots and see the similarities/parallels or simply can't respect valid opinions especially when you've made no attempt to put forward any counter argument, well that's actually embarressing yourself.

And the last time that cyclists were sent to gas chambers, or had their houses burnt down and had to flee from the country of their birth, or were habitually paid less than their car driving colleagues for doing the same work or were sent to prison for just riding a bicycle or denied the vote or hung from trees by a lynch mob of torch wielding thugs was when exactly? Nobody likes being picked on, but have a little perspective.

Are those the only ways that discrimination manifest themselves? I have learnt something today. 

If you are English and have travelled abroad, trust me, you have experienced discrimination.

SteveAustin wrote:

lolz at cyclists experiences being compared to the experiences of racism and hompohobia

 

nowhere near comparable. not even close

Well, that award-winning argument has me sold.

davel wrote:

SteveAustin wrote:

lolz at cyclists experiences being compared to the experiences of racism and hompohobia

 

nowhere near comparable. not even close

Well, that award-winning argument has me sold.

dave, im not being drawn into arguing a nonsense argument in the 1st place. just dismissing it

if you want to argue about the finer points of how homophobic abuse is just the same as being shouted at for riding a bike, go post on a lgbt website. let me know how well you are recieved.

SteveAustin wrote:

if you want to argue about the finer points of how homophobic abuse is just the same as being shouted at for riding a bike, go post on a lgbt website. let me know how well you are recieved.

That sounds like the LGBT community are abusive to "outsiders".

It's tricky to compare homophobic abuse and cycling abuse as they are related but also very different.

Some LGBT members can quite easily hide their nature from the hateful public whereas others cannot, but for cyclists to hide their nature involves cycling off-road or on little-used roads (which some people choose to do).

LGBT members can't change their nature (despite so-called conversion therapies) and similarly cyclists can't change their love of cycling even if they stop cycling (who can control an admiring glance when a beautiful bike goes past?).

What I find frustrating about cyclist abuse is that cycling is quite clearly an activity that benefits society and yet it seems that the idiots "running" society are very anti-cycling.

I just wish for people to stop abusing people for what they "are" and instead concentrate on what they do.

(Completely unrelated, but does the LGBT community welcome Furries? Possibly squirrel fascinated furries - asking for a friend)

hawkinspeter wrote:

(Completely unrelated, but does the LGBT community welcome Furries? Possibly squirrel fascinated furries - asking for a friend)

At a risk of being seen as furry-phobic, I hope to god you don't have an associated photo...

brooksby wrote:

hawkinspeter wrote:

(Completely unrelated, but does the LGBT community welcome Furries? Possibly squirrel fascinated furries - asking for a friend)

At a risk of being seen as furry-phobic, I hope to god you don't have an associated photo...

You had to go there, didn't you?

hawkinspeter wrote:

brooksby wrote:

hawkinspeter wrote:

(Completely unrelated, but does the LGBT community welcome Furries? Possibly squirrel fascinated furries - asking for a friend)

At a risk of being seen as furry-phobic, I hope to god you don't have an associated photo...

You had to go there, didn't you?

SteveAustin wrote:

lolz at cyclists experiences being compared to the experiences of racism and hompohobia

 

nowhere near comparable. not even close

It's not very close, no, but it's all a contuum though.  Not all racial or ethnic minorities are equally subject to it either.  "The Welsh" or "Poles" aren't in the same category as those of African descent, say.  Nor are 'pensioners' or 'council estate dwellers' but they can still be the victims of prejudice and hatred.  There are even heirachies within heirarchies - some kinds of disability or mental illness get more stigma than do others, inclduing, sometimes, from within those in the rest of the group. 

All sorts of groups beyond the most often recognised ones can be subect to prejudice and irrational hatred.

The real difference with cyclists isn't about the degree of hatred, it's that 'using a bike', realistically, is not as unchangeable or fundamental a part of someone's identity as other traits.  For a few it might come close to religion, though, and, hey, that gets counted as an intrisic characteristic, right?

And it's also different because the fundamental problem with it isn't that it harms the members of the existing group, it's that it's bad for everyone because it puts people off cycling and thus leads to more driving.  And so worse health outcomes and a less pleasant environment.

(Though, thinking about it, maybe that also applies to many other prejudices - e.g. homophobia also ends up imposing restrictions on everyone, not just gay people).

Bill H wrote:

One thing that surprised me about using a camera on my commute was how people would vigorously argue their version of events, until I pointed to the camera. Until then they would be self-righteous and even aggressive, and then deflate and start pleading mitigating circumstances.

Is that common? My sample was way too small to know.

"The camera on the front/back of my bike (points) will disagree with your version of events." 

Have said that a few times, chiefly in backing up another cyclist against all types of road user. Prob should take them on every ride, but the Cycliq weighs a tonne and won't fit on all my bars. A must for the commute though I don't always remember/charge as I should 

Beecho wrote:

Told some road raging motorist my front light was also a camera the other week. Soon shut him up.

Wasn’t a camera.

Did the same with my Garmin lol

KINGHORN wrote:

Beecho wrote:

Told some road raging motorist my front light was also a camera the other week. Soon shut him up.

Wasn’t a camera.

 

Did the same with my Garmin lol

I've done this too.

Shades wrote:

I just read a story about a Merc being driven recklessly on the M4 at 130mph which clipped another car; no significant injuries reported.  All captured on a dashcam.  Bloke got 11 mths in jail and a 2 1/2 year ban with extended retest.  If he'd knocked over a cyclist, he'd have got a 'slapped wrist'.  Then there's the couple who got jailed for manslaughter over the bouncy castle death; I doubt they went to work with the intention of killing someone but their 'negligence', despite any remorse, still got them jailed.  Not sure why cyclists are just 'lesser beings'.

'cyclist' is the new 'paki' or 'nigger' or even 'homo'. The amount of vile writings and casual threats of violence in the media and social media pretty much underpins people's hatred. Then you have the victim blaming culture by police and government as well as joe public.

The police, CPS and gov are all complicit in what happens, their failure to apply the law/keep the peace without favour as they have sworn an oath/attestation to do means they have to spend more time dealing with the outcomes of not doing so in the first instance.  The CPS undermine the law and government simply fail to change matters as a whole when it is within their power to do so. The costs in KSIs alone amount to tens of billions of pounds every year, not to mention slight injuries and all the other associated costs of motoring that are not covered by those that use them.

It's a fucking shit show.