Greg LeMond: Lance Armstrong should be in jail... and was top 30 rider at best

A little bit off course but my 2 cents ...

Watch the documentary 9.79, about the Ben Johnson incident, listening to the head tester at the LA and Seoul Olympic games there were so many positives across so many athletes they didn't do anything about it.
Watching Carl lewis and his coaches interviews is like watching lance and his coaches all over again.

Around 200 athletes on the records for Operación Puerto - only the cyclists get named, what about the other athletes?

I don't condone drug taking in any way, I've had people ask me about them and I have explained the dangers and told them if they chose that route there was the door.

Don't get me wrong I definitely think he should pay for the way he destroyed others careers and lives, but if everyone thinks the sports world is clean they really do have their heads in the sand, there will always be the genetic freaks, (Eero Antero Mäntyranta the finish cross country skier, yes I know ironically he got busted for drugs, but his EPO levels were the cause of a genetic mutation) and they usually become the ones who do win more.

How many of you were going crazy when you saw armstrong attack on the hills?... did you really believe that one year after being on his cancer deathbed he could come back and win a race run over 3500+ miles in 3 weeks? seriously?... have you actually met any one who has had cancer or seen how they are feeling recovered from cancer after 1 year??

I loved watching him win, (unfortunately oblivious to his antics towards others, which probably would have influenced my attitude) , I read his books (one actually helped me understand a lot about my dad who died from cancer and what was going through his mind when he had it, but would talk about)
Did I ever think armstrong was clean? no I can honestly say not, in fact I used to argue with a personal friend of his over the issue when I said there was no way he was...however did that stop me enjoying what I saw, no it didn't.
But then I also think the Jamaican's aren't clean either, or a lot of top tennis players, or footballers, or NFL, or Baseball...... etc etc

I'm not cynical just realistic, (I will say though Lemond after reading his book is definitely one of those freaks, and is definitely a cycling hero, as is a guy like Hampsten , who did win clean... but then I also like Coppi, Bartali, Hinault, Merckx and Sean Kelly, and they were all most probably riding on PEDS, but I still like them and reading about and seeing the way they rode)

I wish every one was clean, I love cycling, I love to see the battles in the hills, over the cobbles, the sprints for the line.
We we live in a society where we want hero's, where money and success unfortunately go hand in hand, and sponsors demand results.
it's us who put athletes on a pedestal,
we want our team to win after all who wants to ride a losers bike, or wear a team that never wins jersey
we want to see the records broken,
we want to see people go faster and higher and longer ,

Have you ever asked yourself who it really is putting the pressure on athletes across all sports to achieve these feats?

would you be happy with records never getting broken, seeing no one go faster... it was pretty cool to see Usain break the record huh, how about when he broke it again .. insane!

let me ask you this
have you bought a lighter bike to go faster?
aero wheels?
latest aero kit?
lighter components?

why ?
two answers I can think of
1. Lets face it aero wheels look damn cool
2. You wanted to go faster the pros use them after all.. guess what .. the marketing worked... money out of your pocket to sponsors pocket.

For the record I've had my ass kicked by guys on steel bikes while I was on a carbon bike racing up the hills, I've also had the pleasure to be able to out sprint people on much more expensive bikes than mine with wheels that cost more than my whole bike....its the rider and the results on the scoreboard, not the bike except at the very top levels where seconds and 100th's of seconds can make a difference and mean gold or silver or that hill top win... however I am saving up for some aero wheels they look pretty cool.

Am I saying you cant win without drugs (sprinting yes) ,cycling no, I generally do think it can be done in our sport, and would like to think it is becoming more common place.

Just Enjoy it for what it is and how it makes you feel, and don't be sucked in or surprised when the next one hits the fan, after all we are what make cycling, but we are also the ones who want our guys/girls to win, its what many of us associate with.

it does make us happier when our team/athlete wins, and from my experience people enjoy being happy it feels good.. fact.

... you do want them to win right?

I am reading 'Breaking the Chain'. What strikes me is how natural the drug taking process was in the teams. They are their own test laboratory - testing both 'glow time' and response to each chemical - not every substance has a quantifiable benefit/gain on each person, some work better than others.

The search for an advantage, and the extent that they know the rules, and how to walk round them is astonishing. The current situation with the Jamaican Athletics Association is a topical case in point - no out of competition testing before an Olympic games.

Actually during Lemonds period they started to understand about the drug taking and were a bit more efficient at it, but I don't think Voet and his teams ever stopped. The drugs just became more effective.

I say all this, because I think it unlikely that the culture has changed much, either from before the 1990s, nor since. Some things have adjusted, but I would imagine that bike teams are pretty capable of walking around most of the measures.

One thing that does strike me is that there seems to be a code of respect, which meant that no one in his team doped 'excessively' - i.e. the doctors capped EPO use before the UCI did, and that they didn't try to win everything. I think that is Armstrong's mistake - while he missed the classics, he tried to dominate the big race and that wasn't fair. He is reaping his whirlwind.

Looking at the film picture, he could have at least have bothered working on his leg muscles for it!

Maybe they should go out hunting together to try to patch things up and get along.

its so bad LeMond bikes were canned due to conflict with Lance-who really knows how much $$$ was lost to such a deserving man. His (LeMond!!!) top model in
Reynolds steel was one heavenly rinding bike.

Lance's true position is unknowable, so its a cheap shot by Lemond. Then again he did lie in court, which is a crime; and the suing innocent people. Given that he probably will never go to jail maybe a few low blows are justified.

That Ben Foster pic is immaculate, how did the 90's get so retro. Some bike/kit consultant is getting paid well. Few pennies for the Graham Watson archive?

I think Greg's performances were great. I love the way he came back from an accidental hunting gunshot wound to the lung to win TdF.

It is however important to remember that we live in a world of human beings, whatever superhero status they may have they are still human. I read the infamous Sports Illustrated article below. I read the improbable account about iron injections alone giving Greg a tremendous boost. I understand that EPO must be given along with iron to allow new blood cells to be built, but iron alone does not stimulate stimulate incredible new red blood cell growth. The season in question was the season just prior to general release of EPO to the public. The possibility that gunshot wounded Greg was used as a guinea pig seems credible, although he would still carry some responsibility even if that were so.

To be honest what I see when I read the article is Greg trying to admit that something incredible or miraculous happened by taking the iron shots. Through this admission he achieves penance, because he has stated all that he knew with absolute certainty, while leaving it up to the listener to consider the same doubts that he himself might have harbored.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/cycling/1998/tourdefrance/tourdefrancea...

" LeMond had a second injection of iron and started feeling stronger. He actually stayed within shouting distance of the leaders on a late mountain stage of the Tour of Italy, which was such a morale booster that he wanted an all-out test. Being hopelessly out of contention in the overall standings, LeMond decided to go for broke in the final stage of the Tour of Italy, an individual time trial of just under 34 miles. He would hold nothing back, start to finish. If he ran out of gas — "blew up," in cycling parlance — so be it. But LeMond didn't blow up. He finished second, a whopping minute and 18 seconds ahead of Fignon, the overall winner. "It changed my entire outlook," says LeMond. "Obviously, there was nothing wrong with me physically.""

As I keep saying - if the Sunday Times had not settled with Armstrong and had him testify on oath here we could see him in jail for perjury. We don't have a statute of limitations on perjury (and neither should the USA - it's a very serious offence in their country someone could die as a result of lies in court).

Although if it's shown that he doped on his return to the sport then it's still possible. I am so disappointed in Lance.

On another note, anybody else just seen the pic of Ben Foster as Armstrong for the forthcoming Stephen Frears' movie? I guess it's alright for a direct link to the story and pic here (??).

http://www.empireonline.com/news/story.asp?NID=39128

Funny how all the Lance "Fanboys" with Livestrong wristbands have disappeared.

Beyond time for a truth and reconciliation comittee. I can only imagine Armstrong's "hallelujah" tweet at Cookson's election was in the hope of this. Perhaps I missed it but I haven't seen an awful lot of contrition so so long Lance, you are an amazing cancer survivor but nothing else.

Greg Lemond has every right to say what he thinks. This man was bullied, intimidated and almost bankrupted by Armstrong.

Armstrong WAS different. Cheating at a bicycle race is one thing, but suing those who try and do what is right, ending people's careers and using the cancer community to shield him from accusations is another altogether.

Leave it alone Greg.

Every outburst just brings his name back into the limelight.

LA is dethroned and gone.

Let's move on.

Crazy-legs.... couldn't agree more, I hate Armstrong and what he did, but I also hate all the other cheating bastards of that era, some who were able to ride again and win the Olympics FFS !

He should be treated like all the other cheats, ban them all for life or not, my choice is for life, but lets have some consistency, its not all one persons fault.

Go Greg! I destest Armstrong with a passion.

I normally err on the side of leniency, but in this instance a jail term seems perfectly justified

I disagree with the "top 30 at best" if everyone was clean comment, but I also will concede the LeMond probably has more knowledge and is in a better position to judge, but he may also be using this opportunity to level a few scores with Armstrong. After the way he and his wife were treated he is more than owed the opportunity to put the boot in.

Suggesting jail time is one thing but claiming he was only a "top 30 rider at best" without the drugs will really stick in Armstrong's craw.

Bitchin'

What a legend.

Hear hear well said.