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So technically he was in front.

IanMSpencer wrote:

So technically he was in front.

If by "technically" you mean "actually". The Tesla or its driver may have been responsible for the first collision, if insufficient space was left for the following vehicle - but the rest of the pileup is on the other six drivers.

Oh, I meant to write what I wrote - sarcastic humour that using "actually" might not convey.

Following cars to blame? Not necessarily. With a rapid lane change and braking the 2 second rule doesn't apply and it is quite likely that cars ricochet across lanes, so it is quite possible that all the following involved cars are blameless. Just watch a typical bad drivers video on YouTube and you can see quite often vehicles get caught up in accidents where they have little option to evade a collision. That being said, a depressing number of American drivers seem to think that the driver's seat is the ideal place for coffee and donuts. I was amazed by how many broken vehicles littered the hard shoulder after a heavy rain shower in Dallas when I was there some years ago.

brooksby wrote:

Tesla behind eight-vehicle crash was in ‘full self-driving’ mode, says driver

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/dec/22/tesla-crash-full-self...

Hmm... 

How can they carry on selling it as "full self-driving" when it needs to be chaperoned by a driver that has to take over when the Tesla does something dumb/dangerous?

Probably because Elon Musk is a snake-oil salesman who regularly gets away with lying to the public (and his investors). He has been telling all and sundry his cars could drive on autopilot since he launched them. In 2018, he announced you should buy a tesla because you could use it as an auto-taxi whilst you were at home / in the office. 

So of course his fanbois will use it like that. 

AlsoSomniloquism wrote:

Probably because Elon Musk is a snake-oil salesman who regularly gets away with lying to the public (and his investors). He has been telling all and sundry his cars could drive on autopilot since he launched them. In 2018, he announced you should buy a tesla because you could use it as an auto-taxi whilst you were at home / in the office. 

So of course his fanbois will use it like that. 

I would expect consumer protection laws to have caught up with Tesla by now. It's quite astonishing that the system is allowed to be used on public roads when it's clearly not reliable.

The unreliable bit is the loose nut behind the wheel

I'm surprised that nobody has picked up on the bit of the story tucked in quietly at the end: the police have been unable to determine whether the software had been running or if the driver was telling the truth. So, whilst I would normally be front of the queue for pitchfork and a flaming torch (especially in connection with Teslas) this one might (might!) be a case of a driver finding a new excuse as to why it wasn't their fault...

brooksby wrote:

I'm surprised that nobody has picked up on the bit of the story tucked in quietly at the end: the police have been unable to determine whether the software had been running or if the driver was telling the truth. So, whilst I would normally be front of the queue for pitchfork and a flaming torch (especially in connection with Teslas) this one might (might!) be a case of a driver finding a new excuse as to why it wasn't their fault...

The system should have recorded details in the lead up to the collision, so it should be clear. However, Tesla don't seem to be very honest about their safety record and there's some debate about the timing of when the FSD turns control over to the driver in the event of a collision. If Tesla claim that FSD wasn't active (because it turned off a fraction of a second earlier), then is it fair to say that the driver caused it or the FSD?

Edit: appropriate link https://www.motortrend.com/news/nhtsa-tesla-autopilot-investigation-shutoff-crash/

It is now a requirement of the system that you keep your hands on the wheel. But guess what happens if you take your hands off? It switches off leaving nobody in control.

I have read road tests in the UK where the autonomous lane change system has been criticised for being inconsistent and unpredictable. A lot of other cars have similar features that seem to work much better, almost as if they had been properly developed and tested.

There is probably a clue that Tesla keeps labelling updates as "beta".

Google does that a lot with its releases, but if search has a wobbly it is generally not life threatening (unless you are a Russian conscript trying to find out how to load the AK-47 you were given as they unloaded at the front line).

IanMSpencer wrote:

There is probably a clue that Tesla keeps labelling updates as "beta". Google does that a lot with its releases, but if search has a wobbly it is generally not life threatening (unless you are a Russian conscript trying to find out how to load the AK-47 you were given as they unloaded at the front line).

Beta releases don't seem appropriate to public roads in my opinion unless they're restricted to particular areas or speed limits (e.g. testing at 20mph would seem reasonable if there's no issues found in closed road testing).

hirsute wrote:

 I see rail prices will go up 5.9%

What is the betting that fuel duty will be frozen again ?

Of course it will.  Fuel duty is a tax on hardworking drivers, while rail passengers are clearly idle spongers.

eburtthebike wrote:

Fuel duty is a tax on hardworking drivers, while rail passengers are clearly idle spongers.

Train passengers, like bus passengers, don't have much choice, so are an easy target.

They are also unlikely to do a go-slow / blockade along main roads or other similarly obstructive demonstration (nd those who do that won't be arrested and put in prison, unlike peaceful JSO road-sitters, they will instead get a round of applause* and a further 5p off a litre of fuel). Look how the gaps widen as the profits grow:

https://www.racfoundation.org/data/cost-of-transport-index

* not to be confused with the doorstep clapping for NHS and other key workers during the pandemic, keenly embraced by hypocritical, selfish Tory voters who gleefully put the current bunch of c**ts back in government; the latter's scornful attitude to those same workers alongside penniless immigrants and environmental protestors says all you need to know about them.

I was prepared for over 9%, should have been around 13%.

But of course if it were the rail workers would have put in a perfectly legitimate claim for the 9+% or 13ish%, as is they will demand 5.9%.

They have delayed the announcement for many months.

ktache wrote:

I was prepared for over 9%, should have been around 13%.

But of course if it were the rail workers would have put in a perfectly legitimate claim for the 9+% or 13ish%, as is they will demand 5.9%.

They have delayed the announcement for many months.

Indeed. If only they applied the same formula to public sector salaries as they do for rail fares, the NHS wouldn't be on strike.

ShutTheFrontDawes wrote:

Indeed. If only they applied the same formula to public sector salaries as they do for rail fares, the NHS wouldn't be on strike.

Rail fair rises benefit the most important members of society, shareholders.

Nurse pay rises only benefit nurses and we all know they offer nothing of consequence to society.

NOtotheEU wrote:

Nurse pay rises only benefit nurses and we all know they offer nothing of consequence to society.

Except when they do offer something of consequence (e.g. COVID), at which point, you can pay them in claps and the odd poster stating "thank you NHS". That oughta do it

Still, we're so much better off now that we have left the EU and the poorly paid migrants no longer want to come or stay because they have no security. The poorly paid workers can be British. Awesome.

ShutTheFrontDawes wrote:

NOtotheEU wrote:

Nurse pay rises only benefit nurses and we all know they offer nothing of consequence to society.

Except when they do offer something of consequence (e.g. COVID), at which point, you can pay them in claps and the odd poster stating "thank you NHS". That oughta do it Still, we're so much better off now that we have left the EU and the poorly paid migrants no longer want to come or stay because they have no security. The poorly paid workers can be British. Awesome.

What is the current exchange rate between hand-claps and the pound, anyway?

Not sure. People say that claps don't put food on the table, but I paid in claps for bread once. I was stood at the till clapping for a LONG time before they asked me to leave.

Have we seen the redesigned kit for the women's team yet?

The women's team just won't actually be allowed to ride solo bikes: they'll have to ride tandems with a male relative as stoker...

brooksby wrote:

The women's team just won't actually be allowed to ride solo bikes: they'll have to ride tandems with a male relative as stoker...

Ha! As if they'd let a woman steer! You'll be suggesting that they let women decide where to go next!

The Taliban tandem?