Congleton cyclists say McDonald's is discriminating against people who avoid using their car for unnecessary journeys

hawkinspeter wrote:

How about key workers popping in to grab some breakfast/lunch/dinner? If they're allowed to be open and serve people, then it seems reasonable that people can go there to buy food (or an approximation thereof).

Yep if they're allowed to open I guess that implies it's permissible to travel there - just wondering how a takeaway hamburger comes under the aegis of a "basic necessity", which is, according to the regs, all one's allowed to go out for, keyworker or not?

You're also allowed outside to travel to work, so grabbing a burger on the way to or from work should be fine.

Just because they are allowed to be open doesn't mean that some of their customers are not breaching the regs by driving there.

IanMK wrote:

Just because they are allowed to be open doesn't mean that some of their customers are not breaching the regs by driving there.

It's all in the legislation. You can pre-order takeaway food, or use a drive through. So I am not sure what regulation you think people using a drive through to obtain food are breaking?

See here...

And here...

Is this the latest guidance your quoting? We don't have tiers any more in England at least.

We do, we are all in tier 4

"Every area of England, apart from the territorial waters adjacent to England and the airspace above England and those territorial waters, is within the Tier 4 area."

We are all under tier 4 now.

The one that says you should stay local and only go out if you need to. The one that says that you should walk or cycle if possible. I'm not saying that nobody ever needs McDs I'm suggesting there's a difference between want an need.

But which one says you should stay local? It's NOT the law. That is government guidance. It has NO legal standing, therefore you cannot commit an offence by not following it. The moral argument is a separate issue.

And once again, there is no definition, nor restriction on 'want and need' when it comes to buying food under tier 4 restrictions. I think you are trying to put your values out there as some sort of restriction on what other people can do.

The basic necessity comment is in the guidance, not the legislation, which is here.
 

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/1374/schedule/3A#commentary-key...

Takes a bit of fathoming, but it's all in there what you can and can't travel for. Getting takeaway or drive thru food is perfectly acceptable under the legislation for Tier 4 restrictions.

PP

Sorry you're right I was quoting the guidance not the law. I do get it. I know there's no law being broken. I should have checked my wording.

hawkinspeter wrote:

How about key workers popping in to grab some breakfast/lunch/dinner? If they're allowed to be open and serve people, then it seems reasonable that people can go there to buy food (or an approximation thereof).

I am a key worker. I'm an Uber Eats food courier and I pick up from Mc Donalds on my bike. I ride my bike through the car park to the door, where I leave my bike, then back through the car park when I set off to deliver. I can't buy their food at the service counter because it's closed. I can't buy their food at the drive through, because I'm on a bicycle (or foot)

BUT THERE IS A WAY! (this only works for Mc Donalds that do delivery)

I can order myself some food via the Uber Eats phone app and get it delivered to outside the front door of the Mc Donalds. I don't know how much extra that might cost. Delivery will be as cheap as it can get because it's a very short distance! So you can get a Mc Donalds even if you're on foot or bicycle, so long as they do delivery.

But for me, as a delivery courier, it could get even better. If I switch on my Uber Eats courier app before I order my delivery from the delivery app, I might be the courier that gets offered the delivery. Some of the delivery fee is paid by the restauarant. All that means is that I could end up making a sall profit by delivering food to myself to the Mc Donalds that I pick the order up from. I've seen a courier actually do this with KFC and IIRC, that delivery meant he made a bonus target, so he ended up making about £30 for delivering some KFC to himself to the restaurant he picked up from so that he could take it home for his tea!

That's superb!

Then they probably shouldn't be open, should they?

Quote:

Jill Dooney and her husband cycled to Congleton’s drive-through McDonald’s after getting a first shot of a Covid vaccine at the town hall earlier this week.

Getting your Covid jab seems about as necessary as anything at the moment.

mdavidford wrote:

Quote:

Jill Dooney and her husband cycled to Congleton’s drive-through McDonald’s after getting a first shot of a Covid vaccine at the town hall earlier this week.

Getting your Covid jab seems about as necessary as anything at the moment.

Well absolutely but I'm not sure being out for a necessary journey then allows for a few unecessary add-ons, does it?

Your interpretation of the legislation is wrong. Picking up food from an authorised food retailer, no matter what your opinion is of the food quality (basic necessity or 'luxury' hamburger) is permitted under the legislation.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/1374/schedule/3A#commentary-key...

In the words of the good book "All things are permitted, but not all things are of benefit."

Just because you can, does not mean you should and also you have to show that

" it is reasonably necessary for the person concerned (“P”) to leave or be outside the place where P is living"

Since when was food not a basic necessity?

Me_ wrote:

Since when was food not a basic necessity?

Oh come now, a McDonald's hamburger comes under the heading of an "essential basic necessity"?

Yes. It's food, you might not consider it good food, but it is food and will keep you alive. What should we be eating? Rice and beans for 10 months?

Me_ wrote:

Yes. It's food, you might not consider it good food, but it is food and will keep you alive. What should we be eating? Rice and beans for 10 months?

Food from a supermarket, preferably garnered in as few trips as possible? I believe they sell more than just rice and beans? A McD's clearly is a luxury, not an essential basic necessity.

Rendel Harris wrote:

A McD's clearly is a luxury

You had my vote right up to this point.

Rendel Harris wrote:

Me_ wrote:

Yes. It's food, you might not consider it good food, but it is food and will keep you alive. What should we be eating? Rice and beans for 10 months?

Food from a supermarket, preferably garnered in as few trips as possible? I believe they sell more than just rice and beans? A McD's clearly is a luxury, not an essential basic necessity.

I don't believe the regulations stipulate where you should purchase your food from, merely that you should stay reasonably local. As other posters have noted, services like that allow people travelling to and from work to get food, especially those (like members of the NHS) who may work long shifts and sometimes have trouble getting to the supermarket during opening hours. That does not constitute a luxury. The regulations are clearly designed to facilitate that, and using a McDonalds or similar in the way described above (on your way to and from home, or travelling straight there and back if local) is not in breach of them. More to the point, you are very obviously at far more risk of catching/spreading Covid in a supermarket than at McDonalds or similar. 

Recoveryride wrote:

...services like that allow people travelling to and from work to get food, especially those (like members of the NHS) who may work long shifts and sometimes have trouble getting to the supermarket during opening hours.

What nonsense, NHS staff have cafeterias open at work and are just as capable as anyone else of planning their shopping and meals not to have to rely on fast food outlets.  Keeping unhealthy junkfood outlets open on the grounds that you're helping out NHS staff is real grasping at straws stuff.

Just out of curiosity looked up the McD's in question, it's open 6am-11pm. Approximately 80 metres away there's a Tesco superstore open 6am - 12pm, so anyone who can make it to the Macdonald's can make it to the supermarket, therefore your argument is totally invalid. Keeping unnecessary food outlets like Macdonalds open is encouraging unnecessary journeys and increasing the risks of viral spread.

Unfortunately for you, you don't have ANY argument. Read the damn legislation and stop trying to tell everyone what you THINK they should and shouldn't be allowed to do, or what food they should or shouldn't be allowed to purchase because of your opinion of what constitutes 'necessary'.

You are flogging a dead horse.

People can buy food from any food supplier that is permitted to remain open under the legislation. It is not just supermarkets.

There is nothing in the legislation saying 'in as few trips as possible'.

There is nothing in the legislation that says you cannot buy 'luxury' food items, nor a definition of 'luxury' when it comes to food items.

There is no definition of 'basic necessities' in the legislation, nor mention that these are the only things you are permitted to purchase.

Your interpretation (well, I doubt it's an interpretation as I do not believe you have read the legislation) is simply an opinion based around one sentence in the guidance, which has no legal basis whatsoever.

What makes it pretty obviously wrong regarding 'basic necessities' is the fact there is no restriction on any of the foodstuffs that you can purchase in any of the supermarkets. I assume you wouldn't consider Nando's piri piri sauce to be a basic necessity? Nor ANY alcoholic drink? Or even bottled water? You see, no restrictions nor definition of what the supermarkets may sell as being 'basic necessities'....

PP

The basic requirement is to stay at home, so apart from the odd supermarket shop or ride, that's what we need to do.
In most cases, a fast food trip is not really a reasonable excuse to leave home.