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news
Cyclists dismount Bath (Cllr Saskia Heijltjes)"Not every person on a cycle can dismount": Questions asked of 'cyclists dismount' signs on national cycle route during works
A councillor in Bath has spoken out criticising the council's decision to implement 'cyclists dismount' signs on a popular national cycle route through the city.
The signs have appeared on Cheap Street, part of National Cycle Route 4, a route Saskia Heijltjes points out is a "major route for cycling east to west in a low-traffic environment". The council says this is due to a "road safety audit" which made the suggestion ahead of roadworks to install bollards.
With the road closed, cyclists would ride around the works via the pavement, something Bath and North East Somerset Council said would have "required a circuitous route around the works marked out by white road markings" and risked "conflict between pedestrians and cyclists".
However, the Green Party councillor, formerly the city's first Bicycle Mayor, pointed out that "not every person on a cycle can dismount" and said she has "been asking questions about this for a while".
"I am disappointed by the fact that they haven't really thought it through beforehand. It's a major route for cycling east to west in a low-traffic environment," she told the Somerset Live. "It's a very narrow gap and once you dismount on, say, a cargo bike you are actually a very wide heavy thing."
Earlier this month, a campaign group for disabled cyclists called upon North East Lincolnshire Council to implement clearer signage for a town centre cycling ban. Wheels for Wellbeing said the "just get off an walk" attitude, that one councillor told local cyclists, "only works for people who can" walk their bikes.
"If you can't walk without pain or risk to your health, it's not as simple as 'just get off your bike and walk'," they said, highlighting signage seen in Wandsworth in London that instead states: 'Cyclists dismount unless a mobility aid'.
In reply to Bath's concerned councillor, a letter from council officers told Ms Heijltjes how the decision to put up 'cyclists dismount' signs had been made.
It said: "A marked cycle route on the footway around the works would have required a circuitous route around the works marked out by white road markings. Aside from the impact that the temporary road markings would have made on the natural stone paving at this location, it was felt that it would be difficult to enforce segregation of pedestrians from cyclists at this location potentially leading to conflict between pedestrians and cyclists.
"It had been noted by site management staff that cyclists had been passing through very quickly prior to the signs being erected."
Once completed the works will see bollards prevent motor traffic from accessing Cheap Street between 10am and 6pm, leaving the space open to cyclists and pedestrians, a sliding bollard providing access to blue badge holders and exempt vehicles.
Dan is the road.cc news editor and joined in 2020 having previously written about nearly every other sport under the sun for the Express, and the weird and wonderful world of non-league football for The Non-League Paper. Dan has been at road.cc for four years and mainly writes news and tech articles as well as the occasional feature. He has hopefully kept you entertained on the live blog too.
Never fast enough to take things on the bike too seriously, when he's not working you'll find him exploring the south of England by two wheels at a leisurely weekend pace, or enjoying his favourite Scottish roads when visiting family. Sometimes he'll even load up the bags and ride up the whole way, he's a bit strange like that.
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66 comments
I want to see one sign on a public road that requires car drivers to disembark and continue on foot, for say the next kilometer.
One. One instance in the history of humanity where others than cyclists, traveling on vehicles on a road, to suddenly have no other options to continue except by foot, outside or off the vehicle.
Pedestrians, take off your shoes before crossing the road.
Mothers, remove the baby from the stroller for the next mile.
I love governmental threat assessment.
Does anyone take any notice of dismount signs? Clearly if there are a lot of pedestrians fair enough, but it is safe to stay on your bicycle...
I very much take notice of the red ones.
And the blue ones increase my levels of concentration as I realise that anything untoward occuring will be counted being contributed by my ignoring of an advisory sign.
One could argue that whether you have a disability or not, a bicycle is a mobility aid.
...."It had been noted by site management staff that cyclists had been passing through very quickly prior to the signs being erected."
the too fast / too slow cyclist thing always bemuses me...when I read stuff like this I wonder if the people involved have ever walked through a car park with 1.5Tonne plus vehicles passing them very closely at speeds which are usually well above walking pace...of course they have but that is the normal car world
Very local to me; talk about a storm in a teacup and just provides some unnecessary oxygen for the anti-cycling brigade. It's a bit of roadworks so there's a dismount sign because you need to go onto the pavement for a few metres (usual H&S). There weren't many pedestrians about last time I went through so I just nipped around the pavement; if someone couldn't dismount then not really an issue. Are they just going to stop and shout at the sign.
Cyclists making a fuss about something that isn't worthwhile of any attention.
1. It's illegal to ride on the pavement. Get off and walk. The sign is irrelevant.
2. It's not about space per se. "Cyclists were cycling too fast" and therefore creating a risky situation for pedestrians who you are obliged to protect - yes, that new rule in the HC applies to you vis-a-vis pedestrians. You can't pick and choose what applies and what doesn't!
3. If you can't get off, the road is effectively blocked to you. Find another route.
4. This is a temporary restriction and therefore a short term inconvenience that is providing a better future environment that you'll benefit from. Unless, of course, this isn't a change you want. In which case complain about the scheme and get it blocked instead!
1. Yes it is illegal in UK. Not in other countries.
2. Let's ban cars then for the few drivers speeding.
3. You are right here, the argument some people cannot dismount sounds really silly to me.
4. Construction sites must mimize nuisance as much as possible.
Surely no more so than "we must have driving and parking everywhere, because old / disabled people"? Or "we can't do anything if we find your car on the footway (where it is illegal to drive) because a scrum of rugby forwards, a crane or a passing hurricane might have lifted it there"? Or "we set a maximum speed limit but you're actually allowed to go significantly faster than that"?
It's just "what fraction of the population do you want to negatively affect, and how much"? It could be a passing inconvenience, substantial effort or a complete barrier, depending on disability / how you arrived there.
Of course - construction / road works are both a "special case" and a daily occurrence. What we do depends on the individual circumstances to some extent but it's also very much about what our priorities are for our public spaces / for people's mobility.
You can see how different the approach could be by examining other places.
What sounds silly to you about point 3? It's a factual observation that some cyclists have issues with mounting and dismounting and although they're a minority, we should not be discriminating against people with mobility issues.
If someone has ridden a bike, he has to dismount once. Unless a crane waits him at his destination.
Everybody doesn't like to dismount including me. Some definitely more. But saying that someone cannot dismount sound very silly to my ears.
There's mobility issues that mean that someone needs assistance and/or special equipment to help them mount and dismount. If you compare a cyclist using their cycle as a mobility aid to a wheelchair user (using their wheelchair as a mobility aid), then it's obvious that asking a wheelchair user to get up and walk through a secion of roadworks is discriminatory. Wheelchair users have to get in and out of their wheelchairs too, so I think your point is invalid.
Erm perhaps it isn't the dismounting but how far they would have to 'walk'.
Dan Alexander - thank-you for covering this important question.
Some people *can't* dismount in such a place, because they may not be able to walk more than a few metres (eg around the house), whilst able to cycle many km.
One of the issues is that people using their cycles - especially their standard cycles - as a mobility aid are bullied fairly routinely by Enforcement Officers and some badly-informed members of the public.
So there's an educational agenda here, as well as making the route useable - amongst both whoever it was that put that sign there (they need a legal one), and also more gently among some elements of the cycling / anti-cycling communities who are not aware enoigh (which is why some of us will be continuing to talk about it occasionally) !
Full disclosure: I am a member of the Wheels for Wellbeing Disabled Cycling Activists Network.
Kate Ball (@tandemkate on twitter), who featured in NMOTD when she was riding one of her kids to school on a tandem tricycle, and met a taxi coming the other way on the wrong side of the road past a queue of traffic for 100m, is one of their national campaigns officers, who runs the network.
They are looking for new network members to give wider coverage if anyone here is active on these issues.
Ah yes, but you forget this is road.cc - no ordinary cycling site!
Here, the deluded, uneducated lefty members froth against the tyrannical right wing, worrying that somehow Rishi Sunak will make the sky fall on their heads. And, where better to vent your frustration but alongside other, poor halfwits all brainwashed by the corbynista regime?
Not to mention of course, that it has been stated and acknowledged by road.cc staff no less, that a good old frothbowl of lefty indignance about signs, helmets, speeding and a variety of other day to day matters actually generates them more revenue! What a surprise then, that they push controversial articles!
Nurse, quick he is at the keyboard again.
All I can hear is that song of Rendels, "Creepy Obsession" running through my head.
Many, many years ago a new real ale pub opened in Sheffield. I went in one balmy evening, bought my drink and went to sit in the small outdoor courtyard. Imagine my surprise when I saw the three men huddled round a table in a corner were actually David Blunkett, Ken Livingstone and Jeremy Corbyn. Talk about meeting all your heroes at once! This was when Mr Blunkett was still leader of the city council and before they all went on to greater things. I don't know what they were drinking but Timothy Taylor's Landlord was one of the options on offer so it could have been that - I just don't know.
Well, what did you drink? If it had been TTL then you would have gone on to greater things..instead you're stuck here with us lot
I also met the great Arthur Scargill in a shop just round the corner a few weeks later. Very nice he was too.
I recall having a pint of Old Frothbowl in a Sheffield hostelry. But not a second.
I seem to remember lefty indignance was one of the beers on offer but it wasn't very popular. I think it's where the band got their name from. Not the band (RIP Robbie Robertson)
Wasn't very popular?! Me and my two mates ALWAYS used to drink it. I'm still fuming that they took it off; it was Thatchers fault (and all the Cidermen).
I'm spoilt - mylocal pub does both Landlord AND Abbott.
Without wanting to have too much of a go at you, you need to talk to some disabled people about what aids they need to get around.
The sign is not legal under equality leglislation.
It is not uniformly illegal to cycle on the footway in the UK - there are exceptions, and offical advice about discretion in enforcement issued at the same time that the Act was passed in 1999.
Strange supposition that a cyclist would be unable to dismount. Would make the planned end of the journey somewhat problematic. And if you're incapable of dismounting, what chance you're capable of getting on it to start with?
That's a very narrow view of people's capabilities. It may well be that the cyclist has people to assist with mounting/dismounting or it could simply be a difficult (and/or painful) process that they don't want to be attempting in front of some officious rule enforcer.
Imagine asking this cyclist to get off and walk:
Now bear in mind that not all disabilities are visible and you have to realise that you're being an arse by insisting that everyone can walk 50m and get on and off their bike easily.
Well that's logical. So now you're off (or out of) your cycle. Now what?
Isn't the next bit rather important also? (More on that here)
EDIT better image
"Strange supposition that a cyclist would be unable to dismount. Would make the planned end of the journey somewhat problematic. And if you're incapable of dismounting, what chance you're capable of getting on it to start with?"
as a wheelchair user, I get onto my recumbent handcycle at home to start my ride and, if not returning home, need another wheelchair at the end point. I used to leave an old 'chair at work when commuting. I can "dismount" at any point in a ride but then I'm effectively immobile, when coming across a "Cyclists Dismount" command am I meant to drag myself along the road/footway/... pulling my handcycle after me?
If it helps, it is not unusual for some disabled cyclists to take a manual wheelchair with them on the bike, using a creative towing hitch, or on a trailer.
@Tandemkate on twitter, for example, takes one with her on her E-Brompton (which is a Swytch E-conversion of a secondhand Brompton) if she will need to do much 'walking' (ie wheeling) at the other end.
She still gets challenged, but partly does it to smoke out challenges to create opportunities for education.
https://twitter.com/tandemkate/status/1668649046020333572
-----------------------------
Update
Here's a piccie (posted with permission) of how @TandemKate, who is a Campaigns Officer at Wheels for Wellbeing, takes her wheelchair with her on her cycle - eg if travelling from Derby to London and needing to wheel around offices at the other end.
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