"Trump singled me out for ruining women's sport": Transgender cyclist accuses president of "fixating hate" on trans athletes instead of working to "elevate, fund or support women athletes"

Hirsute wrote:

It's not about protecting rights, it's about othering groups of the population. His EO states that there are only 2 sexes which is scientifically incorrect.

If you are unable to see the extremism and hatred being stirred up by the current regime, I despair.

 

Hatred, aye its a one way street isn't it? Only trans people get hatred, right?

So, abuse by trans supporters doesn't happen?

We'll just start with the term TERFS and the slogan all terfs must die.

You talk about othering but ignore what happens to real women. Bravo.

What is trans? Does it include when a male puts on a dress and demands to be know as a woman?

All sorts of people are subject to hatred and othering under the fascist, nazi regime of trump and musk.
I'm sorry I did not give a exhaustive list.

Male ,Female and what ?
I'm interested to know what else you believe .
There is intersex people born with both though they are assigned one of the above 2 at birth .

Intersex is generally a completely different thing to trans. It is also _incredibly_ rare - being "trans gender" is something of a niche (circa a % or so of the population), while genuine intersex conditions are at least an order of magnitude lower again. At circa 0.01 to 0.1% (max) of the population.

Further, intersex conditions do NOT result in some "in between" person. Intersex people continue to develop as either 1 sex or the other. Their bodies either produce AND respond to testosterone (and they are male), or they do not. Their bodies generally are EITHER male or female, bar potentially some developmental conditions relating to the sex organs.

Yeah, not your battle - or maybe even "about time this wokery is abolished"?

But ... aside from Trump so apparently it's random from day to day, one consistent thing is a fondness for bringing (right-thinking) people together by kicking the 'others' - as Hirsute notes.

Who's to say he won't decide that any women cycling is an affront?  Or that anyone cycling is anti-progress / doesn't present his business pals with another opportunity to make billions?

"But US so what do I care?" ... Indeed - but currently it seems they're quite happy leaning on anyone (including their "friends") to change stuff they don't approve of.  Plus his tech-bro (currently) pals operate the world's biggest magaphone sorry, megaphone.

FWIW it seems that the US is now (a bit like Russia) being run by "angry grandpa".

I'm not really sure exactly what I think about the fairness of transgender folk in sport but I do know that hating them is not an option and where I'm out of my comfort zone that's my problem to deal with.

There is also a real danger to women with the rise of christian nationalism as part of project 2025 and the patriarchal society - https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/missouri-b...

You might be a risk so we have to monitor you.

well said a few old rich white males thinking they have some kind of right over womans bodies. 

To be fair Nodgedave, not all Trans women are old rich males. Some are just rich white males.

I am almost certain that it's not fair for transgender women who went through male puberty to compete in female sports...but I'm very certain that it's a very minor issue in the major scheme of things and that it's being used as a shitty stick with which to beat all transgender people. There needs to be further examination of the issues by experts, negotiation and compromise as appropriate, certainly all this screaming "look at that tall woman with big hands" is doing nothing but promote hate and encourage discrimination.

I am absolutely certain that it's not fair for trans-identifying males who went through male puberty to compete in female sports... and that should be the end of it.
(Check out how 14 and 15 year old boys perform 'against' elite women if there's any doubt about how transformative male puberty is for sports).
That there are other issues to be addressed does not erase the inherent unfairness of male bodies in female sports: at the top level, taking prizes and recognition from female athletes; at other levels standing in the way of the development of women and girls aspiring to reach elite level. Fairness and inclusion are, in this instance, opposing ideals.
Also, while we should never jump to conclusions, we still need to be realistic about how males and females differ in their physical development and how this affects sporting performance.

(Not mentioned in your post but... Killips's point about governing bodies, I think, is very much back to front - it was pressure from activists that bent the rules out of shape to include male-bodied athletes in the female category. That some of those sporting bodies have belatedly revisited their policies to ensure that female spaces are for female bodies is only a return to what should always have been the case).

Rendel Harris wrote:

I am almost certain that it's not fair for transgender women who went through male puberty to compete in female sports...but I'm very certain that it's a very minor issue in the major scheme of things and that it's being used as a shitty stick with which to beat all transgender people. There needs to be further examination of the issues by experts, negotiation and compromise as appropriate, certainly all this screaming "look at that tall woman with big hands" is doing nothing but promote hate and encourage discrimination.

TIMs are greatly over-represented on podiums in amateur sport - cycling particualrly for some reason. It might not be an issue for any man, nor for the vast majority of people who simply aren't doing competitive sport (men or women), but 1 TIM is going to be pushing 100 to 1000+ women down. Which simply isn't fair.

There are many many experiments (from monkeys to 6 month old human babies) that show a sense of fairness runs deep in primates, and transgressions of that sense provoke strong reactions. The situation with TIMs in women's sport is simply not fair - as you recognise yourself.

If you care about trans-people, and care about removing that hate you perceive against them, then addressing this obvious source of unfairness which is (rightly) causing friction is very likely to help _smooth_ the way for trans people. As such you - and trans people, and all other supporters - ought to support _sensible_ policies of _fairness_.

Your analogy is utterly preposterous .

Which analogy? I see a couple of metaphors there ('megaphone' - doesn't seem to be much preposterous about that; 'angry grandpa' - I don't think you we're meant to take that particularly seriously) but no analogies.

You are going to have to explain what analogy you specifically refer to and why it is 'utterly preposterous'.

Men competing as women 》No women's cycling at all .
When you must take it to nonsensical extremes to try and make a point it's preposterous .

chrisonabike wrote:

Who's to say he won't decide that any women cycling is an affront?  Or that anyone cycling is anti-progress / doesn't present his business pals with another opportunity to make billions?

I believe he's already started on your second sentence with his determination to force New York to tear out its cycle lanes. As for the first, he'll probably get round to it, he's only been in office a month...

This is another dumb leap .You want to go
Men competing in women's sports 》No women in sport ,with the first step being cycle lanes in new York being removed .
Ive no idea why people take trump so seriously and hang on every word ,I find that as disturbing as anything he says .

Oh dear, it's quite the irony with you accusing other people of taking Trump too seriously and at the same time deciding that everything people say on here must be taken seriously instead of being able to see when people are making a joke (albeit one with a kernel of truth).

As for why people take Trump so seriously, he's president of the United States of America and in just one month he's already imposed a whole raft of fascistic measures on the USA and he's spreading his tentacles out into the world, more or less leaving Ukraine at the mercy of Russia and supporting the ethnic cleansing of Palestine amongst other things. We can't afford not to take him seriously, regarding him as just a blarophant clown who won't follow through on any of his threats is a huge mistake and something that enables him.

Less sure on the fascism precisely but yes - being happy to go with the "pick on minorities" for gain.  (Does he personally have much of an ideology other than "what is good for Trump is good for America"?).  Certainly interested in loyalty over other attributes.  Witness his presidential picks - even Democrats are in if they swear fealty.  (A more divided, autocratic US may be a longer term trend, but he has certainly pushed that envelope).

However firing the top black man and woman from the military in pursuit of his "anti-DEI" initiative certainly seems to be putting his words into action!    (Probably just coincidence!  Plus he fired a white man also - so that's all fine...)

As you say he is talking down the bike lanes already *, and definitely wishes to get some short term benefit via more fossil fuels, driving etc.  If there's one thing we've learned over the last century it's that the benefits of mass motoring come with lots of problems.  And without very careful management (restriction) it simply takes over - drives down use of other modes, alters places so that active travel becomes less possible or impossible.  Then we're all in the Ponzi scheme of trying to fund the maintenance for ever-further-flung infra by building more of it.

* I mean - he's correct that "they're so bad" - and they should make them into properly separated cycle paths, get the motor vehicles out of them - oh and sort out the junctions too.

You'd better tell Merz and Trudeau that. Along with all the federal government employees.