Ban cyclists and e-scooter riders using phones, Tory peer urges (BBC)

According to DoT nts0101 stats, from 2010 to 2019 (I ignored 2020 ) the average trip is between 6.8 and 7.1 miles and 22.5 to 23.9 minutes.

But you need that massive suv just in case you have to transport a us style fridge every week.

Interesting.  I think you're right - who's going to buy a car that "only" does 100 miles when I can sell you one that won't leave you on the hard shoulder... (Yeah, what was that average journey distance / weekly mileage again?)  It's the normal up-selling via fear / anxiety mostly.

The removable battery idea - if only we had light enough ones - would seem to have a lot going for it.  Mentally it's similar to the present - we're used to checking the dial, going to a central location, waiting a couple of minutes and then driving off again.  As expected charging arrangements turn out to be the hard part for electric cars. It's not the technology, it's the logistics.

ktache wrote:

; Perhaps removable battery packs for that very rare occasion that the really need the range would work.

Honda of Japan have been working on a standard battery spec for the interchangeable value that you mentioned.

As you say, range anxiety and mass disappear if you can just swap in a fully charged standard battery, and go.

ktache wrote:

Small, light and more efficient cars are just not wanted anymore, or so it seems.

Because of "range anxiety" car owners seem to want 2-300 mile range, or that is what the car company seem to sell them.  That means transporting huge weight of batteries meaning more weight which then needs more batteries.  When most journeys are only a few miles, and even 50 miles would be a huge amount to drive on a daily basis.  Perhaps removable battery packs for that very rare occasion that the really need the range would work.

I think it might be in Singapore, they did an emoped scheme that you never charged the battery, when getting flat you'd visit a hub remove the old battery and pick up a fully charged one, shove it in and away you went.  Negating the problems of charging in apartment complexes.

That kind of thing works great in cities where people are doing lots of short journeys (e.g. pizza deliveries). There's an advantage to having smaller nimble vehicles as they don't need so much juice and thus the battery can be small enough to make it easy enough to swap out.

Just had a quick search and there's e-scooters available with removable batteries and 150km range. Considering that they cost a lot less than a car, I can see them becoming popular (I read somewhere that they're becoming very popular in India).

ktache wrote:

Small, light and more efficient cars are just not wanted anymore, or so it seems.

Because of "range anxiety" car owners seem to want 2-300 mile range, or that is what the car company seem to sell them.  That means transporting huge weight of batteries meaning more weight which then needs more batteries.  When most journeys are only a few miles, and even 50 miles would be a huge amount to drive on a daily basis.  Perhaps removable battery packs for that very rare occasion that the really need the range would work.

I think it might be in Singapore, they did an emoped scheme that you never charged the battery, when getting flat you'd visit a hub remove the old battery and pick up a fully charged one, shove it in and away you went.  Negating the problems of charging in apartment complexes.

Its not that small light and efficient cars are not wanted its that they can no longer be legally produced as they will lack all the passive safety systems (airbags, seatbelts, abs, crumple zones etc) that have been legislated into existance and increase the weight of the base car, this then requires a bigger heavier engine/motor and battery/fuel load to get it to move and all of a sudden even the smallest cars weigh over a ton when the original mini 850 weight was under 600Kg.

RE opportunity to rethink transport rather than swap ICE for electric.  You're preaching to the choir but don't underestimate the escape velocity of the present.  From biological evolution to English spelling and grammar "have to be able to get there to from here" is almost a law.  Skeuomorphs and panda's thumbs are everywhere.  Stonehenge was designed with woodwork joints.  I find that troubling in some ways as it suggests ideas of being able to get away without incremental change (e.g. just import the infra designs and principles from The Netherlands to avoid reinventing it / wasting time on "but does it work?") are fantasy.

Electric bikes?  That'll never fly.  Anyway it all started with the car as I discovered when I found I'd move next to the UK's first electric car factory.

hawkinspeter wrote:

with electic cars - there's a major opportunity to reduce size

That's what I love about you hawkinspeter, you come up with some corkers. And such a dry delivery too; smaller cars - as if!
😆 🤣

Maybe something like a bicycle powered by electricity could be invented?

Yes, and they could even mention the price of replacement batteries and how you fit them to that sleek 'disguised e-bike' frame. An e-bike branded by some nominally Italian (owned by Volkswagen, I recall) marque was recently advertised on here where the flash marketing didn't mention either of these factors, and I couldn't find any on the website either. That means you're not going to be able to get a replacement or fit it. 

wtjs wrote:

Maybe something like a bicycle powered by electricity could be invented?

Yes, and they could even mention the price of replacement batteries and how you fit them to that sleek 'disguised e-bike' frame. An e-bike branded by some nominally Italian (owned by Volkswagen, I recall) marque was recently advertised on here where the flash marketing didn't mention either of these factors, and I couldn't find any on the website either. That means you're not going to be able to get a replacement or fit it. 

Take it you're referring to Ducati, all of whose ebikes use either FSA or Shimano batteries which are easily obtainable and which can be replaced in five minutes, even the in-frame "stealth" options. Batteries cost about £400, which isn't peanuts but they should last about 25,000 km+, which is a pretty negligible cost when, as with me, adding an ebike to the stable allows one to get rid of the car. I know you've got a weird obsession with ebikes (tip: what other people choose to ride doesn't do you any harm, just chill and enjoy your ride without worrying about others) but no need to lie about them.

no need to lie about them

No lying involved, not by me at any rate, and I rather take exception to the allegation. I went onto the website as I described and there was nothing about the batteries there, as I described. You are an e-bike enthusiast, so I'm quite prepared to take your statement about replacements at face value and just wait for stories about irreplaceable parts to appear. As for your claim about a 'weird obsession', we have been through this before and I don't need any of your condescending tips- I rarely think about e-bikes because I never see them far from power sources or in less than ideal conditions. I did see one motor past me last Thursday on the big hill out of Lindale in the South Lakes when I was heaving the trusty trailer for 4 days above Coniston- full motor power, effortless upright position versus gruelling effort for 7 hours. Cool, but a completely different activity

"Must look / fit as many as my last car" may not be helping.  If you can get away with not needing to permanently carry 4 extra seats with you then microcars can probably go further.

chrisonatrike wrote:

"Must look / fit as many as my last car" may not be helping.  If you can get away with not needing to permanently carry 4 extra seats with you then microcars can probably go further.

I may be mistaken but recall that you provided evidence that many if not most 4 seat motor vehicle journeys were completed with just one occupant. Even a 'shopping trolley' (Fiat 500 up) is largely wasted space, mass, and energy..

A well known motor vehicle manufacturer did produce a 2 wheel vehicle with a roof and engine but UK legislation still required a helmet to be worn so it wasn't successful...

eBike will have to do then.

lonpfrb wrote:

I may be mistaken but recall that you provided evidence that many if not most 4 seat motor vehicle journeys were completed with just one occupant. Even a 'shopping trolley' (Fiat 500 up) is largely wasted space, mass, and energy..

As windfarm enthusiast* Donald Trump said "I am the evidence".

lonpfrb wrote:

A well known motor vehicle manufacturer did produce a 2 wheel vehicle with a roof and engine but UK legislation still required a helmet to be worn so it wasn't successful...

Why stop at 2 wheels?

* This is not true. But he did use that phrase when opposing them appearing near his golf resort in Scotland.

ktache wrote:

There was a bit in the graun yesterday on the new electric hummer, four and a half tons.

Are us tons different to our tons?

us Ton = 907 kg, as opposed to 1000kg, so the 4.5tons is just over 4 tonnes

13 posts and still not one about anything other than criticising cyclists or supporting anti-cycling measures, got to give you credit for consistency, even the most notorious trolls on here occasionally try to throw in the odd neutral "I'm a genuine cyclist" post for credibility, you're really going for it 100%.

Jimmy Ray Will wrote:

Another demonstration of our current adminstration playing to the crowds. I'm so tired of this populist agenda...

Nothing particularly current about it. Baroness Pickering has been trying - and failing - to get such laws passed for over a decade.

jh2727 wrote:

Nothing particularly current about it. Baroness Pickering has been trying - and failing - to get such laws passed for over a decade.

You would have thought that during that decade someone from the whips office would have explained that evidence [of harm] is required to secure parliamentary time for preventative legislation....

Saying that, the Housing Act 2004, as amended, now adds £300 per bedroom to the cost of private rented accommodation. Where was the evidence of a general, and not exceptional, issue exactly? You may wonder.. #CostOfLiving #UnintendedConsequenses

Sorry, I think you mean 'the Daily Mail has to be frothing about something to secure parliamentary time for preventative legislation....'

Jimmy Ray Will wrote:

Another demonstration of our current adminstration playing to the crowds.

Well, except that the person raising this isn't part of the administration - just a random backbencher. And the relevant minister basically rolled their eyes and told them to do one.

I thought it was short for Dick Quotient, ie he fills the quotient of dicks on here. 

Still glad to see Road CC are on the ball with PBU posting on here. 

Also frequently used for Drama Queen, which seems appropriate for someone who comes out with nonsense such as "mobile phone use by cyclists, given its ubiquity and danger - can and does easily cause injury or death to vulnerable pedestrians."

Luckily it's not that high, tends to be about 50 a year on pavements verges and crossings.  Most get killed crossing the road, I would suppose. With the police of course accepting the "nothing I could do about it" line.

Rendel Harris wrote:

I would be interested to see the data regarding how many RTAs involve cyclists on mobile phones, 

Considering the rabid way the media reports any incidents caused by cyclists I'm sure we would know all about ANY serious injuries caused in such a manner.