Cycling in the UK being left behind?

Rich_cb wrote:

You might want to look at the environmental costs of communism. Under your system the USSR would have been very right wing.

This is another argument against using left/right to categorise political viewpoints. To my mind, the biggest problems with the USSR was authoritarianism and the lack of freedom to criticise the Party.

If our current civilisation is to survive (c.f. fall of Rome) then we're going to have to come up with other paradigms. Personally, I'd like to see politics modelled on open-source software where individuals are free to contribute and meritocracy is the overriding principle e.g. poorly run projects can be simply forked and then people decide which one becomes more popular - usually the better run ones. I'm not really sure how those principles can be used to run societies though.

Awavey wrote:

well I read an article today that said that Liz Truss was the first Conservative PM in the last 30 years who actually was conservative

You mean the Liz Truss who was a Liberal, an anti-monarchist and still in 2016 was a firm Remainer? I wonder how they think she is more of a 'conservative' (whatever that is) than her predecessors.

Opinions may vary on just how right-wing the present government is but the policies and dog-whistle populist statements we've seen in recent years is a worrying trend that we've not seen in this contry for a long time.

Awavey wrote:

on social media platforms, people surround themselves in a bubble with others who only agree with them

As I said before, I'm not sure this is quite as deliberate or strategic - or even as novel - a development as you are suggesting. In previous decades political party and workplace union membership worked in the same way. The British class system and clearly stratified hierarchies in the workplace weren't created for efficiency or for supportive, egalitarian reasons. And the desire to belong to a group and the concept of 'them-and-us' have been around far, far longer than the internet.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In-group_and_out-group

There's a reason that people call her the Iron Weathervane

The Guardian isn't considered centrist.

It's widely known as a left wing paper. Our squirrelly friend posted a good analysis elsewhere in the thread.

The Scott Trust, which was set up to avoid tax, has some rather complex off shore tax arrangements.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2008/may/03/1

The Scott Trust's money initially came from the cotton trade which led the, then, Manchester Guardian, to support the Confederacy and oppose Lincoln.*

Over a billion in slavery linked profits funnelled through a series of companies in tax havens to fund a paper dedicated to human rights and tax transparency.

It's still one of the better UK papers though.

*Edit. More detail here:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2008/oct/16/blackhistorymonth-humantraffi...

Rich_cb wrote:

The Scott Trust's money initially came from the cotton trade which led the, then, Manchester Guardian, to support the Confederacy and oppose Lincoln.

As usual from this quarter, an utterly disingenuous, very much verging on the dishonest, version of the true facts. The Guardian opposed slavery from 1823 onwards. The "support" the paper gave the Confederacy was to advocate that if the North lifted its sanctions and levies on the South, the South would be in a position quickly to begin abolition itself (this was a view held by, amongst others, William Gladstone). The "opposition" to Lincoln was to criticise the fact that Lincoln suspended some Constitutional freedoms during the Civil War, that the Emancipation Proclamation did not free all slaves, and for the fact that Lincoln was prepared to use slavery as a bargaining chip with the Southern states rather than insist its ending was non-negotiable.

Rather more nuanced than "supported the Confederacy and opposed Lincoln."

Rich_cb wrote:

*Edit. More detail here: https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2008/oct/16/blackhistorymonth-humantraffi...

Great source, a letter in the newspaper from someone of no apparent academic standing. Contains the phrase: "Among Lincoln's acts so abhorrent to the Guardian was the Proclamation of Emancipation (January 1 1863)."  Unfortunately it omits the information that the reason The Guardian criticised Lincoln for the Proclamation of Emancipation was because it only emancipated slaves in the states in rebellion, leaving approximately 500,000 of America's four million slaves still in chains. You must have had to search pretty hard to find a source that disguises the truth like that, kudos for effort if not for honesty.

Also, there's this report into slavery and the Scott Trust: https://www.theguardian.com/media/2020/jul/17/scott-trust-commissions-research-into-guardian-founders-possible-links-to-slave-trade

Quote:

Independent researchers have been commissioned by the Scott Trust, which owns the Guardian, to look into any historical connections the newspaper may have had to the slave trade.

The review will research any links between transatlantic slavery and John Edward Taylor, the journalist who founded the Manchester Guardian in 1821, as well as with his associates, their investments and business activities.

“We have seen no evidence that Taylor was a slave owner, nor involved in any direct way in the slave trade,” the chairman of the Scott Trust, Alex Graham, said in an email to staff on Friday.

“But were such evidence to exist, we would want to be open about it. In any event, we must acknowledge that as cotton and textile merchants, some of Taylor and his funders’ family businesses would almost certainly have traded with cotton plantations that used enslaved labour.”

And for some balance where The Gnarduia got it wrong: https://www.theguardian.com/media/2021/may/06/guardian-200-from-slavery-to-blm-the-ups-and-downs-of-200-years-of-guardian-race-reporting

Quote:

Unsurprisingly for a 200-year-old institution, the Guardian has not always got it right in terms of race coverage. An early article from 1823 regretted the “cruelty and injustice of negro slavery”, but also noted that “amongst all the obvious disadvantages of slave labour, there is none more striking than its tendency to deteriorate the soil”. That set the tone for decades of coverage that often failed to empathise: during the US civil war, the Manchester Guardian was so concerned about the cotton trade that underpinned it that it sided with the slave-owning south.

The arrival in the UK of Yemeni seamen after the first world war is marked mainly through the “indignation” felt by dock workers at increased competition for work. Race riots in south Wales in 1919 run under headlines such as “Serious racial riots at Cardiff: Three whites killed. Negroes attack with razors”. (In fact, four were killed, including the Arab seaman Mohammed Abdullah.) Remarkably, 40 years later, headlines about Notting Hill riots similarly focused on the antics of immigrant rioters, and not the more sinister angle of provocative white mobs, though one important article acknowledged the racism faced by Caribbean migrants.

However, Rich_cb is correct that The Gidunara is considered left or at least centre-left and I believe it was always intended to be a left-leaning publication.

Has that report ever seen the light of day?

Guido Fawkes asked about it multiple times but AFAIK it still hasn't?

https://order-order.com/2021/05/06/exclusive-scott-trust-commissioned-re...

Rich_cb wrote:

Has that report ever seen the light of day?

Guido Fawkes asked about it multiple times but AFAIK it still hasn't?

https://order-order.com/2021/05/06/exclusive-scott-trust-commissioned-re...

Can't find it from a quick search. I'd've thought they should have released something by now, especially if there's no evidence of direct involvement with slavery.

Silence is deafening and all that.

Gimpl wrote:

'A good piece in the Grauniad....'

Just like saying - 'A good piece in the Heil....'

For it's faults...no it bloody isn't.

EddyBerckx wrote:

Gimpl wrote:

'A good piece in the Grauniad....'

Just like saying - 'A good piece in the Heil....'

For it's faults...no it bloody isn't.

Both just comics. Both utterly biased. Both rubbish.

Gimpl wrote:

EddyBerckx wrote:

Gimpl wrote:

'A good piece in the Grauniad....'

Just like saying - 'A good piece in the Heil....'

For it's faults...no it bloody isn't.

Both just comics. Both utterly biased. Both rubbish.

The Gradinua bases its reporting on facts, whereas the Heil just makes shit up.

.

How do I join the wonderful simplicity of your black and white world?

.

Judging by your posts, you have been in one for a very long time.

Flintshire Boy wrote:

How do I join the wonderful simplicity of your black and white world?

Just check out the reliability of their reporting - it's not difficult to separate fact from fiction.

Here's a couple of starter links for you that summarise their reporting:

From: https://www.thefactual.com/blog/is-the-guardian-reliable/

Quote:

Over a dataset of 1,000 articles, The Guardian scored an average Factual Grade of 64.8%. This is slightly above the average of 61.9% for all 240 news sources that we analyzed. This places the newspaper in the 60th percentile of our dataset.

From: https://www.thefactual.com/blog/is-the-daily-mail-reliable/

Quote:

Over a dataset of 1,000 articles, the Daily Mail scored an average Factual Grade of 39.7%. This is well below the average of 61.9% for all 240 news sources that we analyzed. This places the site in the 1st percentile of our dataset — it scored the third-lowest of any news source.

You will also notice that I am providing links and external sources to back up my claim. Feel free to respond with a similar level of accountability, though I suspect you just wish to make some political snipe rather than being interested in what's actually going on.

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.you. are. f.reaky. but. . I don.t like .yuou .anywys.

..

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mattw wrote:

I'd regard a gravel bike as a hybrid for general use with bigger tyres better suited to potholes, dodgy pavements and trails / towpaths

the national cycle network and below average UK roads

The Notional Cycle Network you say?  Think mattw will need more than a gravel bike for some of that...

chrisonatrike wrote:

The Notional Cycle Network you say?  Think mattw will need more than a gravel bike for some of that...

No, because some of it is too steep to ride a heavy full suss mountain bike up the hills. You need to hit the sweet spot of low weight AND off road capability

Well since it's the NCN you're going to be walking some of the time anyways so maybe that's a good enough compromise.

A few years back I spent a day travelling from Helensburgh to Edinburgh using some of the NCN - in theory to save actually getting the map / phone out.  A good day out - there are some beautiful / interesting sections.  However it's especially recommended for fans of alleyways, industrial estates, rough-looking estates, extremely varied surfaces, broken glass and meandering.  It didn't save me route-finding time (a very optimistic assumption in most urban areas).  And given the amount of urban terrain to be traversed even in a straight line encountering that sort of thing isn't surprising.  The NCN routes don't really do straight lines though...

I think we've reached 'peak roadie' which is being replaced by 'gravel'/'all-road' (or the industry need the roadies to buy more bikes!). Media (eg magazines, GCN) are all into it and some of clothing brands are coming out with ranges somewhere between MTB and road. Cycling UK are developing these national trails. Pure road riding will still be prominent but I think the shift may well be good for portraying cycling as a means to get around and not just a sport. If you're a non-cyclist thinking of getting into it, better to see a more relaxed image than the hard-core ripped full carbon roadie look. Quiet lanes, bike paths and a bit of light gravel; sounds more appealing than battling with bullying motorists.

2nd hand is great for environmental reasons and low cost access to bikes.  It's also good for local jobs e.g. bike maintenance.  However cycle companies need to stay in business which means new bike sales.

In the UK we're still mostly not selling the more "practical" types of bikes you'd expect if everyone was going to cycle.  (Of course anybody - if they think about it - will consider the bike they buy as practical for whatever use they had in mind).

David Hembrow raises an interesting point about how e-bikes may affect things.  In the UK we're about half a century away (and counting) from their situation but I suspect the percentage of bike sales which are e-bikes may be more similar to the NL.

http://www.aviewfromthecyclepath.com/2022/03/the-challenge-of-declining-...