Vuelta champion Chris Horner joins Lampre-Merida

53x11 wrote:

Boonen rode for Lance and Johan at the height of US Postal doping, and I haven't seen him get pilloried for his associations.

Wondered for a while how Boonen has avoided these questions.

Ghedebrav wrote:

53x11 wrote:

Boonen rode for Lance and Johan at the height of US Postal doping, and I haven't seen him get pilloried for his associations.

Wondered for a while how Boonen has avoided these questions.

I would suggest Boonen's age for a start, fairly sure i read the doping wasn't applied to neo-pro's, and one question, why did he leave us postal when he was still under contract?

In hindsight, did Boonen see things he didn't like???

Ghedebrav wrote:

I don't know why Horner (or Froome, for that matter) is singled for especial doubt and suspicion. Yeah, he did probably dope in the past. I'm a lot less certain that he did last year to win the Vuelta. There are a lot of people on Twitter and elsewhere who need to either start bluntly coming out and stating solid sources or evidence, or cool their jets on what is becoming an increasingly bizarre virtual lynch mob.

Does the quote below help you appreciate why people are dubious?

Anti-doping expert Robin Parisotto has said that he has questions about the biological passport released last month by Vuelta a España winner Chris Horner, explaining that he believes that some of the values in the blood profile justify further scrutiny and testing.

“While it is not 100 percent clear that there is anything untoward happening, there’s certainly unusual patterns there,” Parisotto told VeloNation on Friday. “If this was something that came across my desk for evaluation [as part of cycling’s biological passport panel – ed], I would certainly be putting a question mark on it. I’d at least request that further samples to be taken, particularly just before and during competitions, in order to see if the pattern was a one-off or if it persists.

fatty wrote:

Ghedebrav wrote:

I don't know why Horner (or Froome, for that matter) is singled for especial doubt and suspicion. Yeah, he did probably dope in the past. I'm a lot less certain that he did last year to win the Vuelta. There are a lot of people on Twitter and elsewhere who need to either start bluntly coming out and stating solid sources or evidence, or cool their jets on what is becoming an increasingly bizarre virtual lynch mob.

Does the quote below help you appreciate why people are dubious?

Anti-doping expert Robin Parisotto has said that he has questions about the biological passport released last month by Vuelta a España winner Chris Horner, explaining that he believes that some of the values in the blood profile justify further scrutiny and testing.

“While it is not 100 percent clear that there is anything untoward happening, there’s certainly unusual patterns there,” Parisotto told VeloNation on Friday. “If this was something that came across my desk for evaluation [as part of cycling’s biological passport panel – ed], I would certainly be putting a question mark on it. I’d at least request that further samples to be taken, particularly just before and during competitions, in order to see if the pattern was a one-off or if it persists.

There is understandable widespread suspicion about all riders. In fact, the pro-peloton should accept that, given what has been long suspected and now confirmed about doping, that the public will start from a base point of cynicism regarding any rider.

My point's more about the mass hysteria specifically addressed towards Horner (plus Froome, and - to lesser extent - Wiggins). And not just that - it's the tone of the debate that grinds my gears. There is a prevailing view among this crowd that anyone who dares suggest anything other than cast-iron certainty that Chris Horner force feeds EPO to puppies, foie-gras-style, is a credulous simpleton.

This kind of flat assumption is no more helpful (or interesting) than the erstwhile Lance-defenders adamant that he'd never touched anything stronger than a fizzy energy drink.

Ghedebrav wrote:

My point's more about the mass hysteria specifically addressed towards Horner (plus Froome, and - to lesser extent - Wiggins). And not just that - it's the tone of the debate that grinds my gears. There is a prevailing view among this crowd that anyone who dares suggest anything other than cast-iron certainty that Chris Horner force feeds EPO to puppies, foie-gras-style, is a credulous simpleton.

This kind of flat assumption is no more helpful (or interesting) than the erstwhile Lance-defenders adamant that he'd never touched anything stronger than a fizzy energy drink.

No flat assumption from me. Horner's blood values have not actually been investigated fully so may be absolutely fine! However, they may not be too, as suggested by a medic... What bothers me more are the views of people that demand a rider is clean when the likes of Robin Parisotto have questioned this with an argument based on substance of medical fact. It's the ignorance and dismissal of these possible signals of fowl play that have plagued the sport in the past and have allowed PEDs to dominate unchallenged, damaging the entire reputation of the sport.

You raise a good point about the hysteria etc. I see no evidence to suggest Froome or Wiggins should be subjected to suspicion. Sadly, all Froome and Wiggins have 'done wrong' as it were, were to win races in a era of suspicion. I suspect we're both putting across the same point. I'm merely indicating why Horner gets bad press. People think he's too old (incorrectly in my opinion) and somebody with relevant knowledge had questions about his bio stats. The fence isn't such a daft place to sit on this matter.

atlaz wrote:

Quote:

Now if you look at Jens Voigt at the age of 42 now thats what you call a legend and any team would want him.

Would that be the same Jens who has been giving some remarkably strange interviews where he gets very defensive during questions about doping and who denies ever hearing about doping at CSC despite comments to the contrary by other people?

This.

Personally I'm really pleased that Chris is going to be racing again this year and defending his Vuelta title. Good luck old man.