Amsterdam looking to set a 20kph speed limit on e-bikes

...however the bike *paths* are not mixed spaces in urban areas in NL.  Pedestrians may be crossing them but mostly the two modes have their own areas (something the UK should do, already).  It should not be impossible to have *some* more rapid through-routes in many places.  They are building genuine fast cycle routes connecting towns there - not like UK's "cycle superhypeways".  I know the Dutch have already got a good handle on that with their "monofunctional streets" - perhaps this just needs applying to cycling?

It's arbitrary but I think the 25kph limit for assistance is about right in general.  There are some questions (being asked by NL now) about what happens when the whole population gets that ability (short - looks like you get lots of older people seriously injured, largely in single-bike crashes).  Perhaps something specific can be done for them, or maybe this cost is worth the greater independence and fitness delivered by cycling across the growing elderly population?

We dont have mixed spaces in Amsterdam. I always find its good to kinow what you are talking about before commenting...

No, but we do have a lot of confused tourists that don't realise they're wandering along a bike lane.

"Amsterdam officials are looking to introduce a speed limit of 20kph for electric bikes within the city boundaries to improve safety for pedestrians as well as other cyclists"

Silly me. Rule #1 always check your sources! And never trust a headline.

Good to know from someone on the ground that this is not actually an issue as cyclists and pedestrians don't share spaces. Bit surprising that the Amsterdam Authorities didn't check with you first.

Red herring.

Bike paths in Amsterdam are not generally a mixed environment.

Oh you would be surprised!!!! Dutch rozzers have testing kit that can determine if a moped (or presumably a leccy bike) is delimited. 
Then you get fined big time. 
I doubt they will go after race bikers on non leccy bikes and certainly not on an ex-olympic granny on an omafiets. 

Nice!  Labour intensive but that looks like it would do the job!  Of course, the smart will ensure their cycle / moped has a hidden "overdrive" switch that the police won't find...

true, but Dutch police are pretty canny lot when it comes to 2 wheeled vics!

Wouldn't it be easier just to have a GPS speedometer handy and nip up the road on the suspect vehicle?

Wouldn't it make sense to just ban overtaking if that were the desired result?

That said I'll support anything that brings in greater regulation of motor vehicle speed.

Car Delenda Est wrote:

Wouldn't it make sense to just ban overtaking if that were the desired result?

Sort of relies on the few folks who don't treat them as Minimum Speed Limits, but yes.  It is actually a good safety idea and NL has already implemented this in many places.  This is just for motorists' safety BTW - this is implemented on roads which have separate cycle paths.

I can't think about the headlines though if physically preventing overtaking (or undertaking...) was brought in in the UK.

Carbon cycle wrote:

The danger is when vehicles go at different speeds and you get passes - close or otherwise. A sane approach would be to limit all vehicles to the same speed on each piece of infrastructure. I'd limit e-bikes and cars to 20mph on all roads in built up areas and e-bikes to walking speeds in pedestrian areas or on footpaths. Enforced by gps - a stealth way to bring in gps speed limiting for all vehicles.

This the answer. Well, the part about setting speed limits that are low enough to avoid the slow being bullied, beaten and battered by the fast where the place is crowded. The GPS will never be implemented as the freedumbers, as well as those wary of being spied upon, will vote agin' any such notion.

The difficulty is enforcement, see? It's a rare driver of car or van that doesn't regularly break speed limits, by a large amount in many cases.  The numbers of speeders will just rise if the limits are lowered. Ditto cyclists on paths shared with pedestrians - although "shared" often seems the wrong word. "Jousted for" perhaps?

As to "shared paths" as a notion ..... It's a bad idea to share narrow and often degraded paths between those who can do up to 25mph (fit cyclists) and those who merely walk, especially those walking with children and dogs. Many cyclists will be considerate but it takes only a very few of the other kind to cause havoc. They'll do so on any bike, not just an e-bike.

Roads are better for cyclists; and would be perfect if the car loons were effectively prevented from their looning.

But then that problem of "no enforcement" returns. Car looning is now rife as the traffic rozzer is nowhere to be found. Even in the rare case of an apprehension, the beak is far too kind to the loon.

None of your points are very relevant to Amsterdam though. We use km not mph. 25mph is like 40kmph and is far too fast. We don't have alot of shared paths. Where we do the peds are better behaved and tend to be more mindful of cycle traffic. 

The new legislation is aimed at electric bikers, fast leccy mopeds and espcially at deliveroo type riders - often riders who are not Dutch at all and are not initimate with safe cycling culture in the Netherlands.

joe9090 wrote:

None of your points are very relevant to Amsterdam though. We use km not mph. 25mph is like 40kmph and is far too fast. We don't have alot of shared paths. Where we do the peds are better behaved and tend to be more mindful of cycle traffic. 

The new legislation is aimed at electric bikers, fast leccy mopeds and espcially at deliveroo type riders - often riders who are not Dutch at all and are not initimate with safe cycling culture in the Netherlands.

You may not intend it or even be aware of it, but supping with Geert Wilders will poison you.

You must be having a delusional episode. Check your meds. Where did Geert come into this? I am not Dutch either. But i do try and observe the local customs. Worrying about those who do not is not facist or xenophobic. 

how very woke.. want to cancel him?

Firstly fitting GPS limiters to all cars on the road would be ruinously expensive. Secondly why should I be forced to cycle at 20mph when 25mph gets me there faster?

"why should I be forced to cycle at 20mph when 25mph gets me there faster?"

It's called being a law abiding citizen, social responsibility and ajusting your speed t o suit the conditions. My motorbike with do well over 140mph, do I ride that fast? No. Do I ride at lower then 30mph down the High Street on Saturday morning,  abosuletly. In fact sometime 20mph is too fast. If you can't see why there are time when you need to ride slower then you shouldn't be riding.

Xenophon2 wrote:

You'd solve that by doing checks, seizing bikes and handing out hefty fines

Especially stopping the 1000W ones favoured by delivery riders, which have a rear hub motor the size of a dinner plate that even the most myopic copper should be able to spot.

Yes... but in general a plus point and a problem with electronics is exactly that - they're inherently opaque. There are currently a wide range of these things, all shapes and sizes. Heck, some bike shops can't keep up with bike "standards" - how would a policeman or magistrate? Loophole lawyers' paradise coming up.

But yes, it's easy if you just stop the "dairylee triangle in frame" brigade or "almost a motorbike" lot. If only the food delivery companies had more control over their "employees" self-employed contractors...

Quite a lot of the problem seems to be police just can't be bothered, a while ago I was riding up the 30mph limit Finborough Road in Chelsea at around 25mph on my (unpowered) road bike (nice draft behind the buses and HGVs up there!) with a police car keeping pace with me in the next lane when a Deliveroo rider shot between us, not pedalling, and off into the distance. I looked at the police driver and pointed, he just shrugged in a "tell me about it, whatchergonnado?" manner.

As you imply, pressure on the delivery companies should be the way to go, if they were fined a few thousand every time one of their riders was found on an illegal bike they'd soon get checking mechanisms in place.

Amen!

Unfortunately this sounds like multiple factors combining:

- as you say the historic "snorfiets on the fietspad" thing.  They've two categories of "scooters" - slower snorfiets and then bromfiets which are limited to 45kph and should be on roads only and not motorways.  Depending on who you read there is either a "bit of rule-bending" or widespread "souping up" of one class to essentially be the other.
- Lots of companies (especially some big car / motorbike companies - who'd have thunk it) are very keenly sniffing around the speed pedelecs market / pushing for less regulation of more powerful machines.  These are either electric mopeds or full on motorbikes which look a bit more like a cycle than the ICE ones.
- ebikes are hugely popular - and companies are eagerly upselling, same as with cars. They're allowed on all the paths.  However with these like bromfiets / snorfiets the lines between are getting blurred.
- young folks may be taking more risks on powered machines because young and " 'cos it's a only a bike, innit"?
- older people are continuing to ride with "full gas" using ebikes when they might have slowed or even stopped riding.  That's great in many ways but over a certain age your chances of a very serious outcome in a "normal" crash shoot up.
- possibly more people cycling overall?  Lots already do but there's still possibilities for more trips by this mode.