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news
Video: Cyclists to get two-stage right turn and bus stop bypasses on Edinburgh's Leith Walk
A two-stage right turn junction is to be installed on Edinburgh’s Leith Walk to prevent cyclists from having to wait in the middle of the road. Bypasses will also divert cycle lanes round the back of bus stops so that cyclists do not have to pull out to overtake stopped buses.
Cyclists turning at the McDonald Road junction on Leith Walk will soon be given priority over other vehicles via cycle-only green lights.
Right-turning cyclists will be directed left into McDonald Road before crossing and will be given priority in both stages of the process.
The layout will also enable riders to cross tram tracks at 90 degrees should the line be extended to Newhaven.
The measures are part of a new 700m long section of segregated cycle lane on Leith Walk between Iona Street and Brunswick Street. Both the junction and the bus stop bypasses are due to be in operation by the end of the month.
City council transport convener Lesley Macinnes told the Edinburgh Evening News: “By introducing the first two-stage right turn junction in Scotland, we are proud to be proving once again that Edinburgh is fully committed to making active travel [cycling and walking] as attractive and accessible as possible.”
However, Martin McDonnell, of Spokes, the Lothian Cycle Campaign, questioned the quality of the infrastructure.
“The design is not optimal due to lack of space,” he said. “There is concern that a cyclist turning left into the side road [to turn right] will be mistaken for a left-turning cyclist and drivers might be tempted to turn alongside them. We also have concerns about the cycleways being part of the pavement.”
Alex has written for more cricket publications than the rest of the road.cc team combined. Despite the apparent evidence of this picture, he doesn't especially like cake.
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24 comments
I can't imagine trying that two stage right turn on a tandem. Or a recumbent, trike or tricycle.
It always amazes me that infrastructure often supported by cycling organisations, who are supposed to be supporting a minority, somehow manage to miss their own minorities.
That's your mistake right there. Sustrans aren't a cycling organisation. Sustrans is a charity and grant-receiving organisation which just happens to work in the "cycling space". Hence it never turns down an opportunity to approve of schemes provided by the organisations which fund it, like local authorities.
Very true. I was maybe forgetting that the sustainable bit of Sustrans was to sustain themselves....
Even in the video, with a cartoon bike, and only the one of them, the "turn your bike" in a mini- advanced stop space seems ridiculous. Now try it with several other people doing the same, sharing the space with people already on the road going straight ahead. Oh, and then try it with a trike or cargo bike or trailer.
Beyond useless.
Great. We want to use the roads as is our right (not just merely licensed as motorised vehicles are) and what do we get to offset all the abuse from idiot drivers? Very expensive paint on the road - that's what we get. (And some on the pavement for all the good that will do).
I don't know why but perhaps since some cyclists don't understand what a red light means I don't fancy them being able to use this two stage junction properly, or the car driver noticing that the green light they've just caught a glimpse of is actually for cyclists only.
All of your replies neglect the council's plan to add 4 great tram rails, with 30mm slots to the central 2 lanes. Whilst there's no way I'd use the two stage right turn as it is shown, especially when the advanced green light arrangement is added, I would if the traffic was already moving through a green light up and down Leith Walk. Negotiating 4 lanes of traffic and 4 tram rails in a oner has little appeal during the aforementioned stramash.
The council are doing this before the tram lines are extended to Newhaven, perhaps in 5 years? Or are they publishing these plans early to assess the furore before watering them down?
That right turn is dreadful. What makes them think this is a good idea?
Where can people voice concerns over this and get this nonsense sorted out?
Look how the Dutch do it. Simple elegant and safer for everyone. Why is it so hard when there is basically a reference design...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlApbxLz6pA&app=desktop
When 'we' found out that Chris Peck/CTC and 'friends' had backed the Bedford turbo roundabout using cycling money (specifically for safety) we (the members and forummers) plus others elsewhere were fucking furious that they'd backed it.
Backed it because they were too piss weak to stand up and say no fucking way are we having this gash that doesn't meet spec, doesn't do what it's supposed to do and just as this POS in Scotland just pushes people on bikes out the way and makes it more long winded/difficult.
What I would have had full respect for is if they'd have said straight from the off, if you are going to take that money away because you want to force this shizzle onto us then go get fucked because we will never ever be coerced/strong-armed into accepting substandard crap that is nothing remotely close to what it should be and is spending money on something that it's not labelled for anyway.
All the cycling groups* are too fucking lily livered, weak as and simply losing the plot in far too many cases.
*I don't include British cycling because they are not even on the same level of wankness when it comes to this, they're worse than fucking useless.
They've had this pile of steamy turd in Australia for years, it doesn't work, it makes turning right massively convoluted and is not appealing in any way shape or form.
it totally misses the point, if it's 'dangerous' for the vulnerable, fix the fucking problem, not come up with a shitty 'solution' that isn't actually really a solution at all. They'll claim it as being made safer because people on bike will now simply bypass this load of gash altogether, in a similar fashion that they have on the Bedford 'turbo' which is equally as shit.
Simply have a green cycle light only for wanting to turn right if it's that much of a problem, if not just fucking remove the danger altogether and ban motorvehicles, why the fuck does it always have to be over complicated.
Sustrans are a useless bunch of fuckwits!
There is a whole generation of Thunderhead-Alliance/Bicycles-Belong propagandized "bicycle advocates" who are busy inflicting a car-friendly, bike-hostile infrastructure on the anglosphere.
On their terms, the only way you get segregated infrastructure is when it gets bicycles out of the way of cars.
Why did the cyclist stop and put a foot down instead of simply overtaking the stationary bus?
Two stage right turn is another penalty for choosing a bike. I'd rather mix it with city traffic.
Sustrans, eh?
I don’t see this as a penalty against cyclists but more a provision for those less confident on the roads. Like you. I would continue to mix it with the traffic but my memories of Leith Walk are pretty unpleasant unless it’s well after evening rush hour. Inwould imagine though with the development of Leith trafficking c on Leith Walk is even more congested than it used to be. Would be better nterested to see if anything is being done on Easter Road as that is a lot narrower.
Get in the effing bikelane. My vehicle tax is being spent on building the special bike crossing which is right there beside you. What are you doing in my way?!? Also m'lud my client did not expect the defendant.... sorry, I mean the victim, I actually am representing the defendant, to be present as it is more usual for pushbikes to be in the specially marked crossing. My client would like to convey his deep regrets, but my client just didn't see the cyclist, who, it may be argued, was displaying a not inconsiderable amount of arrogance beneath his lycra.
Do they expect cyclists to wait a couple of minutes for the lights to change, then wait another couple of minutes for the next lights to change when, with a five second head start they can turn right as normal? I don't think they've thought this through.
that's how it works on the south end of Blackfriars Bridge, turning east. Very annoying.
for a left turn?
yes. The two-way cycle lane runs along the west side of the bridge. At the south end a set of lights holds all the cyclists for a while, then there is a green for people going forwards and right, and a phased left turn, so you have to wait while north- and south-bound motor traffic goes forward, with s-bound also going left.
ah, I see, it's been a while since I went that way - possibly designed that way to keep cyclists a safe distance away from the daily mail offices!
i think you and others are coming at this from an experienced cyclists point of view.
i would just ride with the traffic, and turn right as such, but many people get freaked out by the thought of being stuck in the middle of the junction, so the two stage option is meant to help those less experienced cyclists.
i'm not saying it's fool proof, and have concerns (not least whether anyone will have a clue what to do, because as others have pointed out, many won't see the video, but I guess as more such junctions appear gradually people get).
i think having both ask and two stage is a good idea, as it means we are open to take whichever option we prefer.
It's Sustrans. Of course they've not thought it through!
Minimum amount of action being taken to be seen to be doing something, all at the minimum inconvenience to the real dangers on the road: motor vehicles.
Given the complexity of it, this is nothing but dangerous infrastruce that will lead to confusion and does absolutely nothing to protect the road users that it should. In this at least it has all the hallmarks of the usual, awfully thought out, Sustrans scheme.
Will car drivers just see a green light come on and move? It's all very well promoting this video to explain the system but will a sufficient number of car drivers see it to understand? I applaud the attempt and hope it works. Will it cause conflict though? As a long term confident cyclist I would most likely ride as I do on an ordinary road junction to turn right. E.G. move to the centre of the junction and wait for a space in oncoming traffic. But will cyclists doing that get abuse for not using the new system? Very difficult.
While this is good, it seems silly to mix up ASLs and early start / two stage right turns somehow. ASLs are trying to solve the same problem but aren't as good. Maybe it would be better to make the segregation more physical, the phases separate and take the ASLs away?
Taking away ASLs is tantamount to making use of the cycle lane compulsory, I wouldn't support that. Cycle lanes are freuently not fit for purpose so I avoid those ones (I hope this example isn't).
I don't knwo what the situaationis in Edinburgh, but her ein Glasgow there is no logic at all to which junctons have ASLs and which don't. There are many roads where you can cycle from junction to junction playing the amusing "guess of there's an ASL when I get to the front this time".
The simplest way to improve cycling would be to install and ASL at EVERY junction - regardless of whether there's a bike lane (and regardless of whether the bike lane is usable or yet another 75cm wide, potholed car-park!).