Near Miss of the Day 57: Driver almost left-hooks cyclist on roundabout

FluffyKittenofTindalos wrote:

Given what's been said about 'it's not safe to go round on the outside', what do people make of this cycle lane? https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.4033596,-0.1611483,3a,75y,56.39h,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1soYFvD9qanlGALiMnKn9akQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?dcr=0

That cycle lane would appear to affect just the one entry and one exit and isn't wrong. The driver that insists that cyclists use cycle paths is wrong.

I'd ride that like I ride all roundabouts. I'd still take primary position around and ride it like any car would use it, with little or no filtering, yes filtering, at the entry.

don simon wrote:

FluffyKittenofTindalos wrote:

Given what's been said about 'it's not safe to go round on the outside', what do people make of this cycle lane? https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.4033596,-0.1611483,3a,75y,56.39h,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1soYFvD9qanlGALiMnKn9akQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?dcr=0

That cycle lane would appear to affect just the one entry and one exit and isn't wrong. The driver that insists that cyclists use cycle paths is wrong.

I'd ride that like I ride all roundabouts. I'd still take primary position around and ride it like any car would use it, with little or no filtering, yes filtering, at the entry.

Although the lane isn’t necessarily wrong, it is a good example of how infrastructure  a painted line, designed to improve safety for cyclists, can potentially have the opposite effect. 

-It encourages the rider to filter on the inside of a dangerous vehicle, that may be turning left, by providing a false sense of protection.

-The line taken when following the lane may give the impression that the rider is taking the first left. Potentially this may result in a left hook or the driver waiting to join the roundabout at the next exit mistakingly believe the rider has turned. 

-The line the lane takes is away from the eyeline of a driver waiting to join the roundabout when looking for traffic that is already on the roundabout or is joining from the right. 

- The line often results in drivers being too close to the cyclist as they believe just being on their side of the line is enough clearance. 

-Increases the chance of conflict between drivers and cyclists wishing to take the roundabout without using the lane. There may even an assumption that the cyclist will be using the lane. 

Yes these risks can be, and should be, mitigated by careful, considerate and observational driving.... we can but dream!

Looking at it again, notice the line the bus is taking through that 2nd exit.  That exit is narrow, has a pinch point and is followed immediately by a left bend yet a cycle lane has been painted there which just encourages unsafe overtaking!

Thanks for this- I was not aware that cyclists were permitted to take right turning exits from the left hand lane. Can't say I'd fancy doing so either, but I stand corrected

Wolfshade wrote:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/rules-for-cyclists-59-to-82

Rule 77

You may feel safer walking your cycle round on the pavement or verge. If you decide to ride round keeping to the left-hand lane you should

• be aware that drivers may not easily see you
• take extra care when cycling across exits. You may need to signal right to show you are not leaving the roundabout
• watch out for vehicles crossing your path to leave or join the roundabout.

I was unaware of this rule before looking at this, I tend to take islands (since this is a Brummie incident) like a car, so while I may have taken the 3rd exit from the left lane it would have been from the middle. 

Rule 77 does seem to suggest that as riders we should be aware of left-hooks, I'm not sure if this has ever been tested in law to see how far our responsibility extends, it must be noted, that this is a should not a must and so would suggest that there majority of responsibility would be on the driver turnning across the cyclists.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/using-the-road-159-to-203

Rule 187

In all cases watch out for and give plenty of room to

• pedestrians who may be crossing the approach and exit roads
• traffic crossing in front of you on the roundabout, especially vehicles intending to leave by the next exit
• traffic which may be straddling lanes or positioned incorrectly
• motorcyclists
• cyclists and horse riders who may stay in the left-hand lane and signal right if they intend to continue round the roundabout. Allow them to do so
• long vehicles (including those towing trailers). These might have to take a different course or straddle lanes either approaching or on the roundabout because of their length. Watch out for their signals.

So there we have it, while 77 provides ambiguity, 187 shows that the cyclist should be given the right of way and not been impeded.

This video is exactly how I would describe filtering- moving up the inside of slow moving/stationary traffic. Surely the cyclist shouldn't be taking the third (or fourth...?) exit at a roundabout from a road position hugging the left hand curb? I'd be in the middle of the lane at least so no car could get past me then move left on reaching my exit

alansmurphy wrote:

Don, is this what you'd consider filtering? Filtering to me is taking a position between the cars to go forwards but remaining in the correct position when you come to the junction. For the sake of 3 cars the cyclist has put themselves in the gutter to take the third lane. Would have been interested to see what cyclist would have done if any of the cars were signalling left. Still a dick move from the Megane but road cc are starting to share videos that should fall under the "close pass after cyclist puts themselves in danger"...

burtthebike wrote:

The driver overtook somone on a roundabout, which frankly, is grounds for losing their licence.

Don't be silly.  

If I stand at the end of my road near the large roundabout I see it happen all the time.  

The reason there aren't crashes and those on bikes aren't injured/killed  is because some of the vehicles that use it are rather large plus there are pedestrians including children crossing,  so motorists go slowly.

In fact stand near any roundabout in the UK for 20 minutes  and you will be end up shaking your head due to the poor standard of driving.  This gives the police an excuse to do SFA when things on roundabouts that don't result in injury or death are reported to them.

EK Spinner wrote:

Not great driving BUT, if I was taking the third exit off a roundabout I would not start out in the left gutter on the inside of a car

Yep neither party knows the correct way to use roundabouts.

Unfortunately as normal the cyclist nearly comes of worse due to both of their incorrect use.

Bluebug wrote:

EK Spinner wrote:

Not great driving BUT, if I was taking the third exit off a roundabout I would not start out in the left gutter on the inside of a car

Yep neither party knows the correct way to use roundabouts.

Unfortunately as normal the cyclist nearly comes of worse due to both of their incorrect use.

cyclist was using the roundabout correctly. The HC advises that cyclists can use the outside lane if they are not confident with going to the inside. The motorist is advised that cyclists may be going right round the roundabout and that they are to be given priority. The motorist in this instance is a pratt and could have quite easily dropped behind the cyclist to exit. 

giff77 wrote:

Bluebug wrote:

EK Spinner wrote:

Not great driving BUT, if I was taking the third exit off a roundabout I would not start out in the left gutter on the inside of a car

Yep neither party knows the correct way to use roundabouts.

Unfortunately as normal the cyclist nearly comes of worse due to both of their incorrect use.

cyclist was using the roundabout correctly. The HC advises that cyclists can use the outside lane if they are not confident with going to the inside. The motorist is advised that cyclists may be going right round the roundabout and that they are to be given priority.

Use a roundabout like a car  which means take primary position from the beginning. 

The cyclist was on the left hand side and if the car he was next to was going left he could have had problems.

Never presume a motorist will look left and in their left wing mirror when immediately joining a roundabout.

The driver of the car that did the left hook has clearly got problems with looking left,  as well as being unable to do slow smooth movements on a roundabout.

Bluebug wrote:

EK Spinner wrote:

Not great driving BUT, if I was taking the third exit off a roundabout I would not start out in the left gutter on the inside of a car

Yep neither party knows the correct way to use roundabouts.

Unfortunately as normal the cyclist nearly comes of worse due to both of their incorrect use.

We don't know what hand signal the rider was using.

There's nothing inherently wrong with overtaking on a roundabout.

The car should have waited and not cut across the bike, and was wrong in doing so. They were probably pissed off that the bike undertook them filtered at the junction to the roundabout and could foresee seconds of delay if they got stuck behind the cyclist.

I've been told that we should suck it up as this is the way of the world, we should be more understanding of the poor, put upon drivers. The rider should have politely stopped in order for the driver to get on his/her merry way without convenience.

I conclude that it was 100% the rider's fault for being selfish.

HTH.

EK Spinner wrote:

I would not start out in the left gutter on the inside of a car

Me neither, I can't see why anyone would think that's a good idea