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Video: Cyclist criticises council for not fixing huge crack in road which caused him to crash (video contains swearing and an enormous marked crack in the road)

Night time crash threw Nigel Carver in to path of oncoming traffic, broke his arm and wrote off his bike

A road.cc reader who sustained injuries including a fractured arm when he crashed at night due to a huge crack in the road has criticised his local council, saying that markings around the defect showed that they were aware of it and should have taken steps to warn road users of the hazard.

Nigel Carver was cycling downhill on Belton Way East, Leigh on Sea, Essex on 9 January this year when his rear wheel was caught in the crack in the road surface, causing his tyre to blow and threw him and his bike onto the other side of the road and into the path of oncoming traffic.

“Luckily there was no traffic behind me at the time and two taxi drivers by the side of the road came to my aid, pulling me up and my bike out of harm’s way, or it could have been much worse,” he told us.

“I ended up in hospital with two fractures to left arm where my left arm took the majority of the impact, bad bruising and tearing to my ribcage (nothing broken), severe grazing to the left hip and minor grazing to left knee, bruises on palm of right hand and right elbow.”

Nigel said that his bike was a write-off but that given what could have happened, he considered himself “very lucky.”

Talking of the location where the crash happened, he said: “There were no warnings, no cones, no warning lights of any description here, so very little chance of seeing this long crack in the dark, yet the council obviously knew about it, as it had been marked on the road, which is shown in footage that my wife captured next day.

He filmed the incident, complete with “a rather nasty bit of swearing here, as you can imagine,” and says his footage shows “shows how this cannot be seen at all at night - despite my two front lights running ... if a child or elderly person had hit this, without the proper protection or clothes on, they could have been killed.

“Luckily, I have made a fairly good recovery and finally went out again on my old second bike (still waiting on replacement for the one that I wrote off) last week - it’s taken nearly a full 3 months to recover,” he continued.

“As you can imagine, I talked to my solicitor about this and with my local council – being shocked to learn that in my council’s minds, as they had inspected the road on 3 January and noted a category 2 defect of the road which did not warrant a full repair, that basically for them there was nothing wrong with the road. They saw nothing wrong with not coning it off or closing that part of the road.”

Nigel added: “To say I am rather dismayed with the attitude here towards a very dangerous pothole is putting it lightly – and I find it interesting that now, all of a sudden, that part of this road has undergone repair work – as of this week.”

Last month the charity Cycling UK held its inaugural Pothole Watch week to highlight the danger road defects pose to vulnerable road users, and said that during the initiative reports to its Fill That Hole website which allow people to easily notify the relevant highways authority of defects that need remedying had doubled.

Simon joined road.cc as news editor in 2009 and is now the site’s community editor, acting as a link between the team producing the content and our readers. A law and languages graduate, published translator and former retail analyst, he has reported on issues as diverse as cycling-related court cases, anti-doping investigations, the latest developments in the bike industry and the sport’s biggest races. Now back in London full-time after 15 years living in Oxford and Cambridge, he loves cycling along the Thames but misses having his former riding buddy, Elodie the miniature schnauzer, in the basket in front of him.

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27 comments

Avatar
TedBarnes | 5 years ago
3 likes

Nigel - you may want to suggest any solicitor looks at Curtis v Herts CC [2014] EWHC 1672 (QB)

Any decent lawyer will have access to the full judgment, but if you're curious: 

https://www.casecheck.co.uk/curtis-v-hertfordshire-council-2014-ewhc-qb-19-03-14.html

 

The case was mainly about identifying defects and whether the inspection regime was good enough. However, it terms of what's dangerous and how quickly it should be repaired, the view was that a long, linear defect 40mm deep should/would have been assessed as category 1 and repaired within 7 days of being identified. 

Avatar
DrJDog | 5 years ago
0 likes

For two years I've complained to Brent Council repeatedly about the same 75 yard stretch of road that has about 50 dangerous potholes, cracks or sinkholes. No, I'm not exaggerating. OK, maybe about the sinkholes. They occasionally get someone out to fill in one or two of them, leaving about 48 dangerous cracks and potholes. One of them was so big I saw a car drop a wheel in one and struggle to get out when the lights changed.

 

They just don't have the money.

Avatar
TedBarnes replied to DrJDog | 5 years ago
1 like

DrJDog wrote:

For two years I've complained to Brent Council repeatedly about the same 75 yard stretch of road that has about 50 dangerous potholes, cracks or sinkholes. No, I'm not exaggerating. OK, maybe about the sinkholes. They occasionally get someone out to fill in one or two of them, leaving about 48 dangerous cracks and potholes. One of them was so big I saw a car drop a wheel in one and struggle to get out when the lights changed.

 

They just don't have the money.

 

Except that at least in legal theory, lack of resouces is not a defence to failing to repair.

 

Don't take any of this as gospel, but the council can, obliquely, refer to resources when talking about what a "reasonable" inspection protocol is. That would be things like how often to check different types of roads (A, B, side road, etc... ), and how they conduct those examinations - I think in some cases, it's literally one bloke driving while another sticks his head out of the window.

 

The council is not omniscient, and you can't argue they should have known about and fixed an issue simply because it is glaringly obvious - in terms of detecting it's whether their inspection routine is reasonable, was that actually followed, was the defect actually reported, could it have developed over a short period of time in bad weather etc...  

 

However, my vague understanding is reasonableness in terms of resources doesn't apply when a defect has been identified and the question is about repairs. It's either dangerous or it's not, and while their assessment might be given a bit of leeway by a judge, I don't think they can argue they simply didn't have funds to repair.

 

Rock and a hard place for them. Similar to the assumptions/strict responsibilities placed on local authorities when it comes to care - the law tells them what they have to do, but makes no allowance for the fact they may not have enough money to do it. 

 

Judges of course do have to follow the law, but they're human and will recognise the lack of resources issue; even if they don't say they're taking it into account, it's not usually that difficult to make a particular decision if they want to, and often difficult or expensive to try and appeal that. 

Avatar
Mungecrundle | 5 years ago
4 likes

Disclaimer: What follows is most definitely uninformed opinion.

1. If there were a legal principle that any damage caused by a roadway defect was the fault of the vehicle operator for not seeing it, then no-one would ever have been able to succesfully recover compensation from the responsible local authority. Neither would warning signs and barriers be necessary around road works. As this is clearly not the case, there must be a point at which the authority becomes liable.

2. The technical argument of any case would seem to revolve around the classification of the road defect. The council agree that it exists and that they were aware of it, but classified it as being of low risk. If that stands then your case collapses. However you could argue that it did pose a significant risk, that you have proven beyond reasonable doubt that it was dangerous by crashing (with video footage) and that it was therefore incorrectly classified.

3. It is easy to convince yourself as a layman that you have a watertight case. Madcarew is doing you a favour by playing Devils advocate. This is more than likely the type of argument that will be advanced by the authority's legal department. After all they do not want to have to compensate you.

My suggestion would be to run it past a personal claims lawyer. If they are happy to take it on a no win no fee basis then you can be reasonably sure that they think you have a decent chance of success.

Avatar
hughsain replied to Mungecrundle | 5 years ago
3 likes

Mungecrundle wrote:

Disclaimer: What follows is most definitely uninformed opinion.

1. If there were a legal principle that any damage caused by a roadway defect was the fault of the vehicle operator for not seeing it, then no-one would ever have been able to succesfully recover compensation from the responsible local authority. Neither would warning signs and barriers be necessary around road works. As this is clearly not the case, there must be a point at which the authority becomes liable.

2. The technical argument of any case would seem to revolve around the classification of the road defect. The council agree that it exists and that they were aware of it, but classified it as being of low risk. If that stands then your case collapses. However you could argue that it did pose a significant risk, that you have proven beyond reasonable doubt that it was dangerous by crashing (with video footage) and that it was therefore incorrectly classified.

3. It is easy to convince yourself as a layman that you have a watertight case. Madcarew is doing you a favour by playing Devils advocate. This is more than likely the type of argument that will be advanced by the authority's legal department. After all they do not want to have to compensate you.

My suggestion would be to run it past a personal claims lawyer. If they are happy to take it on a no win no fee basis then you can be reasonably sure that they think you have a decent chance of success.

This is pretty much word-for-word what I was going say - especially point 1, with regards to individuals claiming here that a cyclist hitting a dangerous road defect at night is de facto their fault. The fact that councils paid out £3m in pothole-damage-compensation in 17/18 is some precedent...

https://www.confused.com/on-the-road/safety/uk-potholes-reach-new-depths

Avatar
hawkinspeter | 5 years ago
7 likes

I'd side with Legin67 on this one.

It's fair enough to expect cyclists to watch out for hazards and cycle to the conditions, but a dark crack in dark asphalt at night is not going to be easy to spot unless you're specifically watching out for it. It's one thing to be surprised by an unexpected obstruction such as a branch in the road, but I dare say that a branch would be a lot more visible than this.

The council have a legal responsibility to keep the road in good repair, so it seems reasonable for them to pay up when they haven't done their job correctly.

Avatar
ktache | 5 years ago
8 likes

My take on this is that the council had had a good look at this massive defect on a road for which they had responsibility, decided that it wasn't going to damage cars yet, so thought, we can leave it for a bit.  Completely ignoring the entirely legitimate use and therefore danger to cyclists.  There are bits of that scar in the earts crust that could catch my 2.1 inch nobblies and throw me off.  The councils need to consider us and our use of the road.

 

Avatar
madcarew | 5 years ago
4 likes

Here's my take on this, and it probably won't be popular.

Although the council has a responsbility to care for the roads and keep them in a useable condition, it is every road user's responsibility to 

(i) travel in a  manner that is suitable for the conditions

(ii) travel at a speed where they can stop in the clear road they can see ahead.

Imagine, if you would for one second, what the take on these pages would have been if a motorcyclist was riding along, hit an undulation / deep puddle / obstruction / ice then lost control and wiped out a cyclist. If nothing else BTBS would have been spilling vituperative bile about travelling too fast for the conditions, not anticipating, not paying attention etc etc

This cyclist was going too fast for the conditions. In this case, probably the lighting conditions. Would he have been able to see the crack in the daylight? Clearly, he would, as he has taken detailed photos of it. This was the cyclists fault, period. He was not able to stop in the clear road he could see ahead.

The council does have a responsibility to look after the roads to a certain standard, and they have demonstrated that they have taken steps to meet that standard. Whether or not you like the standard is of no consequence at all. Maybe they should remedy this crack, but that is neither here nor there. The cyclist was travelling in such a manner that they weren't able to stop in the face of a dangerous  (to them) obstacle.

BTBS has in the past famously claimed that people in dark clothing don't need to be lit up because he can see them whilst travelling with the missus under streetlights, or by the two candlepower beams of his A40 (or hansom cab)because he always travels at an appropriate speed and anticipates hazards. Clearly he would not have crashed on this obstacle, and clearly would expect the at fault party to put their hand up and own their responsibility.

If you want the full onset of the nanny state, if you want cyclists only on cycle paths, if you want compulsory body armour and compulsory helmets, if you want restrictive licensing and insurance conditions, if you want a world where no-one has to take responsiblity for their personal safety but that which is mandated on them; go ahead, sue the council, engage your solicitors. After all it's we, the council tax and insurance premium payers, who will pay for it.

Or you could stick up for  a world where we take responsiblity for our own actions; appreciate, accept, and manage our own risk, and enjoy some measure of freedom.

The cyclist was going too fast for the conditions and bears full responsibility for their injuries and damage.

Full disclosure. I ride, I crash, I don't work for a council, and I believe we should recognise that we don't live in a safe, entirely predictable world, and we're better off for it.

 

 

Avatar
tonyw replied to madcarew | 5 years ago
0 likes

madcarew wrote:

 

This cyclist was going too fast for the conditions. In this case, probably the lighting conditions. Would he have been able to see the crack in the daylight? Clearly, he would, as he has taken detailed photos of it. This was the cyclists fault, period. He was not able to stop in the clear road he could see ahead.

 

I have to say I was suprised at how poor the bicycle lighting of the road was when I looked at the video. If I was riding in the dark I would have my lights set up to clearly identify road problems far enough ahead to be able to avoid any problems. It might not have been a crack, it could have been a small animal or a rock or similar knocked onto the road by a pedestrian.

 

So, I tend to think there was some fault on both the council and the rider. I think the council's fault is not because there was a crack in the road but the fact that it was long in the direction of travel. If it was across the road instead it wouldnt be an issue.

 

Having said that I'm truly sorry he was badly hurt in the accident.

 

Avatar
Legin67 replied to tonyw | 5 years ago
2 likes

tonyw wrote:

madcarew wrote:

 

This cyclist was going too fast for the conditions. In this case, probably the lighting conditions. Would he have been able to see the crack in the daylight? Clearly, he would, as he has taken detailed photos of it. This was the cyclists fault, period. He was not able to stop in the clear road he could see ahead.

 

I have to say I was suprised at how poor the bicycle lighting of the road was when I looked at the video. If I was riding in the dark I would have my lights set up to clearly identify road problems far enough ahead to be able to avoid any problems. It might not have been a crack, it could have been a small animal or a rock or similar knocked onto the road by a pedestrian.

 

So, I tend to think there was some fault on both the council and the rider. I think the council's fault is not because there was a crack in the road but the fact that it was long in the direction of travel. If it was across the road instead it wouldnt be an issue.

 

Having said that I'm truly sorry he was badly hurt in the accident.

 

As I stated in another comment - I actually had two lights running - a Moon Nebula (240 lumens) on Blink Mode, and a BikeMate front light (800 lumens) on full beam - both of which are very bright - and both of which my cheap camera does not pick up well in the video.

Added to which I have a Garmin Vara 2 running at the back at all times, as well as a rear Moon Nebula...while my helmet has rear stop and indicator lights built into it, as well as the usual reflective jacket and reflective strips on legs and reflective gloves ....So, for the purposes of riding at night, I am usually pretty much lite up like a Christmas tree... 

And thank you for your concern, I am almost fully recovered now, although it appears I may have a small amount of permanent tendon damage, I am hopeful this will heal.      

 

Avatar
Legin67 replied to madcarew | 5 years ago
2 likes

madcarew wrote:

Here's my take on this, and it probably won't be popular.

Although the council has a responsbility to care for the roads and keep them in a useable condition, it is every road user's responsibility to 

(i) travel in a  manner that is suitable for the conditions

(ii) travel at a speed where they can stop in the clear road they can see ahead.

Imagine, if you would for one second, what the take on these pages would have been if a motorcyclist was riding along, hit an undulation / deep puddle / obstruction / ice then lost control and wiped out a cyclist. If nothing else BTBS would have been spilling vituperative bile about travelling too fast for the conditions, not anticipating, not paying attention etc etc

This cyclist was going too fast for the conditions. In this case, probably the lighting conditions. Would he have been able to see the crack in the daylight? Clearly, he would, as he has taken detailed photos of it. This was the cyclists fault, period. He was not able to stop in the clear road he could see ahead.

The council does have a responsibility to look after the roads to a certain standard, and they have demonstrated that they have taken steps to meet that standard. Whether or not you like the standard is of no consequence at all. Maybe they should remedy this crack, but that is neither here nor there. The cyclist was travelling in such a manner that they weren't able to stop in the face of a dangerous  (to them) obstacle.

BTBS has in the past famously claimed that people in dark clothing don't need to be lit up because he can see them whilst travelling with the missus under streetlights, or by the two candlepower beams of his A40 (or hansom cab)because he always travels at an appropriate speed and anticipates hazards. Clearly he would not have crashed on this obstacle, and clearly would expect the at fault party to put their hand up and own their responsibility.

If you want the full onset of the nanny state, if you want cyclists only on cycle paths, if you want compulsory body armour and compulsory helmets, if you want restrictive licensing and insurance conditions, if you want a world where no-one has to take responsiblity for their personal safety but that which is mandated on them; go ahead, sue the council, engage your solicitors. After all it's we, the council tax and insurance premium payers, who will pay for it.

Or you could stick up for  a world where we take responsiblity for our own actions; appreciate, accept, and manage our own risk, and enjoy some measure of freedom.

The cyclist was going too fast for the conditions and bears full responsibility for their injuries and damage.

Full disclosure. I ride, I crash, I don't work for a council, and I believe we should recognise that we don't live in a safe, entirely predictable world, and we're better off for it.

 

 

 

FYI - I actually had two lights running - a Moon Nebula (240 lumens) on Blink Mode, and a BikeMate front light (800 lumens) on full beam....both of which my cheap camera does not pick up well in the video. 

Added to which I have a Garmin Vara 2 running at the back at all times, as well as a rear Moon Nebula...while my helmet has rear stop and indicator lights built into it, as well as the usual reflective jacket and reflective strips on legs and reflective gloves ....So, for the purposes of riding at night, I am usually pretty much lite up like a Christmas tree... 

The road at night is black, as is the crack and potholes running along it - surface conditions were damp - so no chance of seeing it at all to stop in time, especially when you have parked cars by the side of the road...and as for speed, I was not at full speed, as I was slow going down due to the dampness (which both my Strava and Garmin data show) - however, whether I was slow or fast does not really matter, as either way a wheel (road bike, mountain or motorbile) would still get caught in it...

As for the photographs in the daylight - I did not take them, that was my wife..

I have been cycling on roads since 1978/9, having passed my cycling proficiency to do so, as well as various Police funded cycling road courses back in the 1980s (and yes, I also drive) - so am well aware of road conditions and how they can affect vehicles, hence my speed being relatively slow, and am old enough to have taken responsibility for my own actions when I have had accidents caused by my own fault..unlike this time...

If the crack had not been there, the accident would not have happened, if it had been repaired the accident would have not happened - the council have a duty of care and a responsibity to those who use their roads to ensure that they are safe, well repaired and fit for purpose - whatever the  conditions - that is what they are paid to do...        

 

Avatar
madcarew replied to Legin67 | 5 years ago
0 likes

Legin67 wrote:

madcarew wrote:

Here's my take on this, and it probably won't be popular.

Although the council has a responsbility to care for the roads and keep them in a useable condition, it is every road user's responsibility to 

(i) travel in a  manner that is suitable for the conditions

(ii) travel at a speed where they can stop in the clear road they can see ahead.

Imagine, if you would for one second, what the take on these pages would have been if a motorcyclist was riding along, hit an undulation / deep puddle / obstruction / ice then lost control and wiped out a cyclist. If nothing else BTBS would have been spilling vituperative bile about travelling too fast for the conditions, not anticipating, not paying attention etc etc

This cyclist was going too fast for the conditions. In this case, probably the lighting conditions. Would he have been able to see the crack in the daylight? Clearly, he would, as he has taken detailed photos of it. This was the cyclists fault, period. He was not able to stop in the clear road he could see ahead.

The council does have a responsibility to look after the roads to a certain standard, and they have demonstrated that they have taken steps to meet that standard. Whether or not you like the standard is of no consequence at all. Maybe they should remedy this crack, but that is neither here nor there. The cyclist was travelling in such a manner that they weren't able to stop in the face of a dangerous  (to them) obstacle.

BTBS has in the past famously claimed that people in dark clothing don't need to be lit up because he can see them whilst travelling with the missus under streetlights, or by the two candlepower beams of his A40 (or hansom cab)because he always travels at an appropriate speed and anticipates hazards. Clearly he would not have crashed on this obstacle, and clearly would expect the at fault party to put their hand up and own their responsibility.

If you want the full onset of the nanny state, if you want cyclists only on cycle paths, if you want compulsory body armour and compulsory helmets, if you want restrictive licensing and insurance conditions, if you want a world where no-one has to take responsiblity for their personal safety but that which is mandated on them; go ahead, sue the council, engage your solicitors. After all it's we, the council tax and insurance premium payers, who will pay for it.

Or you could stick up for  a world where we take responsiblity for our own actions; appreciate, accept, and manage our own risk, and enjoy some measure of freedom.

The cyclist was going too fast for the conditions and bears full responsibility for their injuries and damage.

Full disclosure. I ride, I crash, I don't work for a council, and I believe we should recognise that we don't live in a safe, entirely predictable world, and we're better off for it.

 

 

 

FYI - I actually had two lights running - a Moon Nebula (240 lumens) on Blink Mode, and a BikeMate front light (800 lumens) on full beam....both of which my cheap camera does not pick up well in the video. 

Added to which I have a Garmin Vara 2 running at the back at all times, as well as a rear Moon Nebula...while my helmet has rear stop and indicator lights built into it, as well as the usual reflective jacket and reflective strips on legs and reflective gloves ....So, for the purposes of riding at night, I am usually pretty much lite up like a Christmas tree... 

The road at night is black, as is the crack and potholes running along it - surface conditions were damp - so no chance of seeing it at all, especially when you have parked cars by the side of the road...and as for speed, I was not at full speed, as I was slow going down due to the dampness (which both my Strava and Garmin data show) - however, whether I was slow or fast does not really matter, as either way a wheel (road bike, mountain or motorbile) would still get caught in it...

As for the photographs in the daylight - I did not take them, that was my wife..

I have been cycling on roads since 1978/9, having passed my cycling proficiency to do so, as well as various Police funded cycling road courses back in the 1980s (and yes, I also drive) - so am well aware of road conditions and how they can affect vehicles.

 

You may have been lit up like an xmas tree, but perhaps the road wasn't. That is irrelevant. The point remains that you were travelling at such a speed, or in such a manner that you were unable to see or avoid a significant hazard.

I didn't dwell on how many lights you had or how many lumens, only that you were unable to react appropriately to what they lit up. 

The point is taken about your wife taking the photos, but that doesn't change the fact that they are plainly visible. 

You may not have been travelling at full speed, but again, that is irrelevant. If you had been travelling at 5 kph would you have been able to see and avoid the crack and reduce the injury and damage?

I have ridden bikes for 40+ years. I've crashed a few times, written a few bikes off, been in hospital a couple of times. And every time owned up when it has been my fault. 

You were unable to stop in the clear road you could see ahead, or were not paying full attention to the road and conditions. The accident is your fault.

I don't deny the council should perhaps fix the crack (which I made clear) but that is irrelevant to your accident. The crack clearly presents a hazard to cyclists, but so do kerbs, and islands, and pedestrians, and parked cars, and sticks, and rocks; all of which may be difficult to spot in the dark. It is your responsibility to travel in such a way that you are able to manage the risk; and if your level of management results in an outcome you don't like; Get up, dust off, adjust your management if you like, and get going again. Just don't blame someone else.

I hope you heal well, and quickly and continue to cycle. 

Avatar
Legin67 replied to madcarew | 5 years ago
3 likes

madcarew wrote:

Legin67 wrote:

madcarew wrote:

Here's my take on this, and it probably won't be popular.

Although the council has a responsbility to care for the roads and keep them in a useable condition, it is every road user's responsibility to 

(i) travel in a  manner that is suitable for the conditions

(ii) travel at a speed where they can stop in the clear road they can see ahead.

Imagine, if you would for one second, what the take on these pages would have been if a motorcyclist was riding along, hit an undulation / deep puddle / obstruction / ice then lost control and wiped out a cyclist. If nothing else BTBS would have been spilling vituperative bile about travelling too fast for the conditions, not anticipating, not paying attention etc etc

This cyclist was going too fast for the conditions. In this case, probably the lighting conditions. Would he have been able to see the crack in the daylight? Clearly, he would, as he has taken detailed photos of it. This was the cyclists fault, period. He was not able to stop in the clear road he could see ahead.

The council does have a responsibility to look after the roads to a certain standard, and they have demonstrated that they have taken steps to meet that standard. Whether or not you like the standard is of no consequence at all. Maybe they should remedy this crack, but that is neither here nor there. The cyclist was travelling in such a manner that they weren't able to stop in the face of a dangerous  (to them) obstacle.

BTBS has in the past famously claimed that people in dark clothing don't need to be lit up because he can see them whilst travelling with the missus under streetlights, or by the two candlepower beams of his A40 (or hansom cab)because he always travels at an appropriate speed and anticipates hazards. Clearly he would not have crashed on this obstacle, and clearly would expect the at fault party to put their hand up and own their responsibility.

If you want the full onset of the nanny state, if you want cyclists only on cycle paths, if you want compulsory body armour and compulsory helmets, if you want restrictive licensing and insurance conditions, if you want a world where no-one has to take responsiblity for their personal safety but that which is mandated on them; go ahead, sue the council, engage your solicitors. After all it's we, the council tax and insurance premium payers, who will pay for it.

Or you could stick up for  a world where we take responsiblity for our own actions; appreciate, accept, and manage our own risk, and enjoy some measure of freedom.

The cyclist was going too fast for the conditions and bears full responsibility for their injuries and damage.

Full disclosure. I ride, I crash, I don't work for a council, and I believe we should recognise that we don't live in a safe, entirely predictable world, and we're better off for it.

 

 

 

FYI - I actually had two lights running - a Moon Nebula (240 lumens) on Blink Mode, and a BikeMate front light (800 lumens) on full beam....both of which my cheap camera does not pick up well in the video. 

Added to which I have a Garmin Vara 2 running at the back at all times, as well as a rear Moon Nebula...while my helmet has rear stop and indicator lights built into it, as well as the usual reflective jacket and reflective strips on legs and reflective gloves ....So, for the purposes of riding at night, I am usually pretty much lite up like a Christmas tree... 

The road at night is black, as is the crack and potholes running along it - surface conditions were damp - so no chance of seeing it at all, especially when you have parked cars by the side of the road...and as for speed, I was not at full speed, as I was slow going down due to the dampness (which both my Strava and Garmin data show) - however, whether I was slow or fast does not really matter, as either way a wheel (road bike, mountain or motorbile) would still get caught in it...

As for the photographs in the daylight - I did not take them, that was my wife..

I have been cycling on roads since 1978/9, having passed my cycling proficiency to do so, as well as various Police funded cycling road courses back in the 1980s (and yes, I also drive) - so am well aware of road conditions and how they can affect vehicles.

 

You may have been lit up like an xmas tree, but perhaps the road wasn't. That is irrelevant. The point remains that you were travelling at such a speed, or in such a manner that you were unable to see or avoid a significant hazard.

I didn't dwell on how many lights you had or how many lumens, only that you were unable to react appropriately to what they lit up. 

The point is taken about your wife taking the photos, but that doesn't change the fact that they are plainly visible. 

If you had been travelling at 5 kph would you have been able to see and avoid the crack?

I have ridden bikes for 40+ years. I've crashed a few times, written a few bikes off, been in hospital a couple of times. And every time owned up when it has been my fault. 

You were unable to stop in the clear road you could see ahead, or were not paying full attention to the road and conditions. The accident is your fault.

I don't deny the council should perhaps fix the crack (which I made clear) but that is irrelevant to your accident. The crack clearly presents a hazard to cyclist, but so do kerbs, and islands, and pedestrians, and parked cars, and sticks, and rocks; all of which may be difficult to spot in the dark. It is your responsibility to travel in such a way that you are able to manage the risk; and if your level of management results in an outcome you don't like; Get up, dust off adjust your management if you like, and get going again. Just don't blame someone else.

I hope you heal well, and quickly and continue to cycle. 

No, not really irrelevent - as it appears you were trying to twist it to make out it was my fault for not having enough lights to see by..   

In answer to your questions - I was not 'traveling at such a speed...' - in point of fact I was fairly slow, the video actually looks faster than it was - otherwise the injuries would have been much worst - I can always pull my Strava data that shows the actual speed..

Would you be saying the same thing to other people that have come off in broad daylight on the same type of hazards, badly injuring themselves or in some cases actually getting killed...There are plenty of examples sadly...far too many.

The pothole and crack maybe plainly visible on a clear day, on a video and pictures taken in the morning - but at night black cracks on black tarmac road, which is what most of that road is - then no chance of seeing them sadly...even on a rainy day they will disappear...Are you local? Do you know the road?

Well, I have been cycling in total for 45 years plus - I have also crashed once or twice in that time - and yes, I am able to recognise when its my own fault, thank you.

In this case, again, if the crack had not been there, then I would not have had the accident - irrespective of speed and conditions - and no, if you was traveling at 5kph (3.1 mph) on that road at night, you would still struggle to see the crack (black bitumen road with black crack on it). At 5kph its hard enough in the day  (irrespective of the vehicle) to see that crack - but you are more then welcome to come on down and try it out for yourself - please feel free, happy to give you the postcode. 

Thank you, I am almost healed - although I may have some permanent tendon damage to my left arm, with a small loss of 2% of the arm bending - but my doctor, and myself, are hopeful that this will actually recover over time...   

As I can see that you have your own very set opinions here, there is little point in carrying on with this conversation - however, may I just say that I truly hope that this never happens to yourself, friends or family, and that you never have anybody seriously hurt or killed through a pothole crash - its something that in todays world simply should just not happen.        

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Hirsute replied to Legin67 | 5 years ago
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Legin67 wrote:

.... its something that in todays world simply should just not happen.  

Can't say I have found ECC that responsive to highways damage unless it is the A12 (as linked earlier). Whoever does the temporary repairs does not do too well either.

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Blackthorne | 5 years ago
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I am sorry for your unfortunate accident, but from the footage it looks as if you had insufficient headlight illumination to see oncoming obstacles? If one were to compare this to cars vs potholes, it is akin to a car not having turned on its headlights and driving in the dark.

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Hirsute replied to Blackthorne | 5 years ago
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Blackthorne wrote:

I am sorry for your unfortunate accident, but from the footage it looks as if you had insufficient headlight illumination to see oncoming obstacles? If one were to compare this to cars vs potholes, it is akin to a car not having turned on its headlights and driving in the dark.

Or the camera is not very good for night footage.
Meanwhile with cars

https://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/16067110.Emergency_repairs_to_pothol...

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Legin67 replied to Blackthorne | 5 years ago
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Blackthorne wrote:

I am sorry for your unfortunate accident, but from the footage it looks as if you had insufficient headlight illumination to see oncoming obstacles? If one were to compare this to cars vs potholes, it is akin to a car not having turned on its headlights and driving in the dark.

Thank you, yes it was pretty nasty - however, as I stated in another comment - I actually had two lights running - a Moon Nebula (240 lumens) on Blink Mode, and a BikeMate front light (800 lumens) on full beam - both of which are very bright - and both of which my cheap camera does not pick up well in the video.

Added to which I have a Garmin Vara 2 running at the back at all times, as well as a rear Moon Nebula...while my helmet has rear stop and indicator lights built into it, as well as the usual reflective jacket and reflective strips on legs and reflective gloves ....So, for the purposes of riding at night, I am usually pretty much lite up like a Christmas tree... 

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BehindTheBikesheds | 5 years ago
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the law is pretty clear, if the road is out of repair to the ordinary person then it's out of repair. And also the highway has to be safe for ALL road users, the council can call it whatever catergory they like, this is clearly out of repair and not safe for road users on two wheels.

It was encumbent upon them to make good the repairs as the responsible persons to do so (their county highways dept specifically) or to cordon off the section of road and make road users aware of the hazard.

A decent solicitor should be able to make this an easy win in court if the council play hardball and don't cough up.

Bunch of wankers.

EDIT So according to the definition of a CAT2 in the code of practise "Category 2 defects are those which, following risk assessment during an inspection, are not deemed an immediate or imminent hazard or risk of short term structural deterioration" These will be graded High, medium and low.

This is clearly bullshit, it clearly presented an immediate hazard to people on cycles owing to the defect itself AND the position in the highway, this was bloody obvious!

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Legin67 replied to BehindTheBikesheds | 5 years ago
1 like

BehindTheBikesheds wrote:

the law is pretty clear, if the road is out of repair to the ordinary person then it's out of repair. And also the highway has to be safe for ALL road users, the council can call it whatever catergory they like, this is clearly out of repair and not safe for road users on two wheels.

It was encumbent upon them to make good the repairs as the responsible persons to do so (their county highways dept specifically) or to cordon off the section of road and make road users aware of the hazard.

A decent solicitor should be able to make this an easy win in court if the council play hardball and don't cough up.

Bunch of wankers.

EDIT So according to the definition of a CAT2 in the code of practise "Category 2 defects are those which, following risk assessment during an inspection, are not deemed an immediate or imminent hazard or risk of short term structural deterioration" These will be graded High, medium and low.

This is clearly bullshit, it clearly presented an immediate hazard to people on cycles owing to the defect itself AND the position in the highway, this was bloody obvious!

Thank you - and I agree - I was very lucky that it wasn’t worst...I shudder to think if it had been a child on a bike that hit the crack which I did, I don’t think they would have survived..

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stonojnr replied to BehindTheBikesheds | 5 years ago
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BehindTheBikesheds wrote:

the law is pretty clear, if the road is out of repair to the ordinary person then it's out of repair. And also the highway has to be safe for ALL road users, the council can call it whatever catergory they like, this is clearly out of repair and not safe for road users on two wheels.

It was encumbent upon them to make good the repairs as the responsible persons to do so (their county highways dept specifically) or to cordon off the section of road and make road users aware of the

Reported a pothole to my local council last week,must have been at least nearly a foot wide and over several inches deep,only saw it at the last second to avoid it in broad daylight,its on an unlit main countryside A road, national speed limit, at night you wouldn't just buckle a bike wheel if you hit it, it would rip a car wheel off its axle...minimum of 10 working days to repair it they quoted.

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BehindTheBikesheds replied to stonojnr | 5 years ago
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stonojnr wrote:
BehindTheBikesheds wrote:

the law is pretty clear, if the road is out of repair to the ordinary person then it's out of repair. And also the highway has to be safe for ALL road users, the council can call it whatever catergory they like, this is clearly out of repair and not safe for road users on two wheels.

It was encumbent upon them to make good the repairs as the responsible persons to do so (their county highways dept specifically) or to cordon off the section of road and make road users aware of the

Reported a pothole to my local council last week,must have been at least nearly a foot wide and over several inches deep,only saw it at the last second to avoid it in broad daylight,its on an unlit main countryside A road, national speed limit, at night you wouldn't just buckle a bike wheel if you hit it, it would rip a car wheel off its axle...minimum of 10 working days to repair it they quoted.

Their schedule is just their made up version/how they want to interpret matters, it doesn't follow law and the 'best practice' is yet more bullshit made up to validate local authority and Highways England's negligence/reticence in repairing the 'way' or bridge.

Start off at Section 36 of the Highways Act 1980but Section 56 is the main bit about repairs.  https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1980/66

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fenix | 5 years ago
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I've known motorists to have claimed successfully when they damaged tyres hitting the pavement.
The local council built the pavement out at a few sections to make the road safer to cross but dim drivers still managed to drive straight into it.

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squidgy | 5 years ago
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Councils don't seem to regard the safety of 2 wheeled road users very highly. My local authority considers potholes upto 5cm not to be deep enough for repair. A 5cm hole hit at any speed is probably going to upset a motorcyclist. A cyclist is going to have a much worse day.

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jh27 | 5 years ago
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The council considered it safe.  It clearly isn't. The council will make their decision on the basis of cost - is it cheaper to fix it or cheaper to leave it and risk litigation.  They chose the former - there's only one way you can convince them that it was the wrong decision.

 

If they weren't aware of it, it is difficult to show that they were liable.  They have admitted that they were aware of it, the fact that they deemed it safe, when clearly it wasn't, does not reduce their liability.  Difficult to judge the width, but it looks like that crack could trap a narrow road bike tire and throw a cyclist off their bike.

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Legin67 replied to jh27 | 5 years ago
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jh27 wrote:

The council considered it safe.  It clearly isn't. The council will make their decision on the basis of cost - is it cheaper to fix it or cheaper to leave it and risk litigation.  They chose the former - there's only one way you can convince them that it was the wrong decision.

 

If they weren't aware of it, it is difficult to show that they were liable.  They have admitted that they were aware of it, the fact that they deemed it safe, when clearly it wasn't, does not reduce their liability.  Difficult to judge the width, but it looks like that crack could trap a narrow road bike tire and throw a cyclist off their bike.

They were aware of it,  but they listed it as a category 2 pothole...not deemed needing a repair..and yes, certainly did try my rear tire - blowing it out and throwing me off my bike..have added one of the photos that wife took next day, while I was in the hospital...

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Sriracha | 5 years ago
5 likes

Car drivers claim damages to wheels and tyres caused by potholes. Surely you can at the very least claim for the damage to your bike? Pedestrians claim for trips over broken pavement slabs. Surely you are able to claim for personal injury? Your council sound like a right shower, and your solicitor does not seem much drier. Hope you get sorted.

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Legin67 replied to Sriracha | 5 years ago
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Sriracha wrote:

Car drivers claim damages to wheels and tyres caused by potholes. Surely you can at the very least claim for the damage to your bike? Pedestrians claim for trips over broken pavement slabs. Surely you are able to claim for personal injury? Your council sound like a right shower, and your solicitor does not seem much drier. Hope you get sorted.

Thank you - I am pushing my solicitor on this one.

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