Near Miss of the Day 274: Turning driver almost hits cyclist riding in bus lane

srchar wrote:

hawkinspeter wrote:

I don't think you've quite grasped the concept of 'near miss'.

I'd explain it to you, but I don't have enough crayons to hand.

Maybe you could explain it using a tedious picture of a squirrel?

.

jacko645 wrote:

According to Strava I was travelling at about 24 mph here, so admittedly reasonably speedy but definitely not speeding. Keeping pace with the rest of the traffic I'd call it.

That's pretty quick and the rest of the traffic was hardly moving.

It's not really the equivalent to slowing down at every side street as isn't not the same visibility for either party. I'd have clocked that particluar bit as a hazard and slowed a bit more. But as I said above the driver should have not moved at the speed he did or assumed it was ok because the red car pulled out.

I guess as cyclist's losing speed is annoying but I find my self now slowing down more for hazards regardless of the mode of transport, although picking up speed in a car is trivial.

MarkiMark wrote:

... should add that personally if at all possible I would ride down the right hand side of the line of traffic to avoid just this sort of thing....

Although I have discovered a few times, that does not stop some drivers turning right out of a side road through a gap in traffic. I'm a bit more cautious at those situations now.

squidgy wrote:

I realise I'm probably going to get some blow back from this but what exactly do you think the driver did wrong? They appear to be attempting a completey legitimate right turn across stationary tragic and stopped when they saw the rider on the inside. If anything, the rider needs to exert some caution aproaching junctions like, not just go barrelling through

Highway Code wrote:

Rule 180

Wait until there is a safe gap between you and any oncoming vehicle. Watch out for cyclists, motorcyclists, pedestrians and other road users. Check your mirrors and blind spot again to make sure you are not being overtaken, then make the turn. Do not cut the corner. Take great care when turning into a main road; you will need to watch for traffic in both directions and wait for a safe gap.

Remember: Mirrors – Signal – Manoeuvre

There wasn't a safe gap and the driver had very poor visibility for watching for cyclists.

They shouldn't be performing a right turn if they cannot be sure that it is safe to do so.

Also:

Highway Code wrote:

Rule 183

When turning

keep as close to the left as is safe and practicable
give way to any vehicles using a bus lane, cycle lane or tramway from either direction.

hawkinspeter wrote:

squidgy wrote:

I realise I'm probably going to get some blow back from this but what exactly do you think the driver did wrong? They appear to be attempting a completey legitimate right turn across stationary tragic and stopped when they saw the rider on the inside. If anything, the rider needs to exert some caution aproaching junctions like, not just go barrelling through

Highway Code wrote:

Rule 180

Wait until there is a safe gap between you and any oncoming vehicle. Watch out for cyclists, motorcyclists, pedestrians and other road users. Check your mirrors and blind spot again to make sure you are not being overtaken, then make the turn. Do not cut the corner. Take great care when turning into a main road; you will need to watch for traffic in both directions and wait for a safe gap.

Remember: Mirrors – Signal – Manoeuvre

There wasn't a safe gap and the driver had very poor visibility for watching for cyclists.

They shouldn't be performing a right turn if they cannot be sure that it is safe to do so.

Also:

Highway Code wrote:

Rule 183

When turning

keep as close to the left as is safe and practicable
give way to any vehicles using a bus lane, cycle lane or tramway from either direction.

I sometimes despair at this attitude many current cyclists have that their own safety is the reposonsibilty of everyone else. I'm not alone here in thinking that the rider contributed greatly to the near miss and should have been aware of the potential danger. The driver stopped in time and there was no collision. In my mind this is just a case of one road user giving way to another.
If we as cyclists are going to mix it with vehicles we have to be prepared for some give and take. There seems too much take and not much give from either party.
Chris boardman is right that we all need to stop this them and us rhetoric and learn to coexist

squidgy wrote:

I sometimes despair at this attitude many current cyclists have that their own safety is the reposonsibilty of everyone else. I'm not alone here in thinking that the rider contributed greatly to the near miss and should have been aware of the potential danger. The driver stopped in time and there was no collision. In my mind this is just a case of one road user giving way to another. If we as cyclists are going to mix it with vehicles we have to be prepared for some give and take. There seems too much take and not much give from either party. Chris boardman is right that we all need to stop this them and us rhetoric and learn to coexist

Seriously?

A vehicle turning right does not have priority and must make sure that it is safe to do so.

A vehicle (e.g. a cyclist) continuing straight along a road does have priority (excepting crossings etc) and should not have to slow/stop at every possible junction that a careless driver may decide to pull into.

Personally, I'm always careful in this kind of scenario as I understand that some drivers don't understand the rules and how priority is supposed to work, even when it's clearly laid out in the Highway Code. So, I would use the bus/cycle lane but watch out for turning vehicles.

It's nothing to do with us/them - you're getting very confused. If a bus was progressing down a bus lane with a line of stationary traffic on its right, what would you think should happen if a cyclist coming the other direction decided to turn right in front of the bus? Would you blame the bus for not watching out for its own safety? Obviously not.

It astounds me at times that drivers don't take responsibility for the danger that they pose to other people - seems like they expect everyone else to just move out of their way even when they clearly don't have priority and are performing a dangerous maneouvre.

hawkinspeter wrote:

squidgy wrote:

I sometimes despair at this attitude many current cyclists have that their own safety is the reposonsibilty of everyone else. I'm not alone here in thinking that the rider contributed greatly to the near miss and should have been aware of the potential danger. The driver stopped in time and there was no collision. In my mind this is just a case of one road user giving way to another. If we as cyclists are going to mix it with vehicles we have to be prepared for some give and take. There seems too much take and not much give from either party. Chris boardman is right that we all need to stop this them and us rhetoric and learn to coexist

Seriously?

A vehicle turning right does not have priority and must make sure that it is safe to do so.

A vehicle (e.g. a cyclist) continuing straight along a road does have priority (excepting crossings etc) and should not have to slow/stop at every possible junction that a careless driver may decide to pull into.

Personally, I'm always careful in this kind of scenario as I understand that some drivers don't understand the rules and how priority is supposed to work, even when it's clearly laid out in the Highway Code. So, I would use the bus/cycle lane but watch out for turning vehicles.

It's nothing to do with us/them - you're getting very confused. If a bus was progressing down a bus lane with a line of stationary traffic on its right, what would you think should happen if a cyclist coming the other direction decided to turn right in front of the bus? Would you blame the bus for not watching out for its own safety? Obviously not.

Squidgy.... I'm with you on this, watch the video again, you can clearly see from 50m out that there is car waiting to turn, you can see it edging into the gap, the cyclist was not paying any attention to the traffic conditions and what "could" happen, at the end of the day it is up to the car driver to ensure it is safe, but the cyclist isn't doing enough either, in reality there isn't a car driver out there that wouldn't make that turn, we can argue all day long they shouldn't do it, but as a cyclist I prefer to ride with care on the basis that it makes no difference what the law says, I assume the car driver will do what they consider to be OK, after all my family saying... I was in the right when I am dead doesn't really help them, we can all go high and mighty on this one, but for me, this one was perfectly avoidable if the cyclist was actaully watching the road, there are plenty of others whereby the cyclist could do nothing, this isn't one of them.

hawkinspeter... clearly I don't disagree with the highway code, but you have to realise that no matter how much we cry and scream about the car driver not following the HC there is a standard which falls short, instead of just laying blame to every car driver, we sometimes need to look at how we can avoid the situation, like I said, makes no difference who was to blame if you are dead, when looking up meant you are not.

bigbiker101 wrote:

hawkinspeter wrote:

squidgy wrote:

I sometimes despair at this attitude many current cyclists have that their own safety is the reposonsibilty of everyone else. I'm not alone here in thinking that the rider contributed greatly to the near miss and should have been aware of the potential danger. The driver stopped in time and there was no collision. In my mind this is just a case of one road user giving way to another. If we as cyclists are going to mix it with vehicles we have to be prepared for some give and take. There seems too much take and not much give from either party. Chris boardman is right that we all need to stop this them and us rhetoric and learn to coexist

Seriously?

A vehicle turning right does not have priority and must make sure that it is safe to do so.

A vehicle (e.g. a cyclist) continuing straight along a road does have priority (excepting crossings etc) and should not have to slow/stop at every possible junction that a careless driver may decide to pull into.

Personally, I'm always careful in this kind of scenario as I understand that some drivers don't understand the rules and how priority is supposed to work, even when it's clearly laid out in the Highway Code. So, I would use the bus/cycle lane but watch out for turning vehicles.

It's nothing to do with us/them - you're getting very confused. If a bus was progressing down a bus lane with a line of stationary traffic on its right, what would you think should happen if a cyclist coming the other direction decided to turn right in front of the bus? Would you blame the bus for not watching out for its own safety? Obviously not.

Squidgy.... I'm with you on this, watch the video again, you can clearly see from 50m out that there is car waiting to turn, you can see it edging into the gap, the cyclist was not paying any attention to the traffic conditions and what "could" happen, at the end of the day it is up to the car driver to ensure it is safe, but the cyclist isn't doing enough either, in reality there isn't a car driver out there that wouldn't make that turn, we can argue all day long they shouldn't do it, but as a cyclist I prefer to ride with care on the basis that it makes no difference what the law says, I assume the car driver will do what they consider to be OK, after all my family saying... I was in the right when I am dead doesn't really help them, we can all go high and mighty on this one, but for me, this one was perfectly avoidable if the cyclist was actaully watching the road, there are plenty of others whereby the cyclist could do nothing, this isn't one of them.

hawkinspeter... clearly I don't disagree with the highway code, but you have to realise that no matter how much we cry and scream about the car driver not following the HC there is a standard which falls short, instead of just laying blame to every car driver, we sometimes need to look at how we can avoid the situation, like I said, makes no difference who was to blame if you are dead, when looking up meant you are not.

So, if a bus was travelling along the bus lane where the cyclist was, would you expect the bus to stop to allow the right turning car or would the bus come to the conclusion that though the car would like to turn right, it has to wait for the bus to go first?

As a cyclist, I can anticipate right turning cars at every single road junction, every single empty drive and also anywhere that a car could possibly park. Sometimes, you have to forgo some caution for actually travelling at a suitable speed and that entails relying on drivers not doing dangerous right turns.

hawkinspeter wrote:

squidgy wrote:

I sometimes despair at this attitude many current cyclists have that their own safety is the reposonsibilty of everyone else. I'm not alone here in thinking that the rider contributed greatly to the near miss and should have been aware of the potential danger. The driver stopped in time and there was no collision. In my mind this is just a case of one road user giving way to another. If we as cyclists are going to mix it with vehicles we have to be prepared for some give and take. There seems too much take and not much give from either party. Chris boardman is right that we all need to stop this them and us rhetoric and learn to coexist

Seriously?

A vehicle turning right does not have priority and must make sure that it is safe to do so.

A vehicle (e.g. a cyclist) continuing straight along a road does have priority (excepting crossings etc) and should not have to slow/stop at every possible junction that a careless driver may decide to pull into.

Personally, I'm always careful in this kind of scenario as I understand that some drivers don't understand the rules and how priority is supposed to work, even when it's clearly laid out in the Highway Code. So, I would use the bus/cycle lane but watch out for turning vehicles.

It's nothing to do with us/them - you're getting very confused. If a bus was progressing down a bus lane with a line of stationary traffic on its right, what would you think should happen if a cyclist coming the other direction decided to turn right in front of the bus? Would you blame the bus for not watching out for its own safety? Obviously not.

Yes, seriously. The driver may have been a bit fast starting their manoeuvre but evidently were paying enough attention to spot the rider appear from the blind side of the van. Why compare a massive bus to a cyclist. That achieves nothing. Any confusion is in the attitudes of the cycling revolutionaries that seem all too ready to give their 2 peneth about the highway code and what drivers are required to do with little or no regard for rider personal safety. I'm all for calling out dangerous close passes and near misses, but this one dosnt register on the radar.

squidgy wrote:

hawkinspeter wrote:

squidgy wrote:

I sometimes despair at this attitude many current cyclists have that their own safety is the reposonsibilty of everyone else. I'm not alone here in thinking that the rider contributed greatly to the near miss and should have been aware of the potential danger. The driver stopped in time and there was no collision. In my mind this is just a case of one road user giving way to another. If we as cyclists are going to mix it with vehicles we have to be prepared for some give and take. There seems too much take and not much give from either party. Chris boardman is right that we all need to stop this them and us rhetoric and learn to coexist

Seriously?

A vehicle turning right does not have priority and must make sure that it is safe to do so.

A vehicle (e.g. a cyclist) continuing straight along a road does have priority (excepting crossings etc) and should not have to slow/stop at every possible junction that a careless driver may decide to pull into.

Personally, I'm always careful in this kind of scenario as I understand that some drivers don't understand the rules and how priority is supposed to work, even when it's clearly laid out in the Highway Code. So, I would use the bus/cycle lane but watch out for turning vehicles.

It's nothing to do with us/them - you're getting very confused. If a bus was progressing down a bus lane with a line of stationary traffic on its right, what would you think should happen if a cyclist coming the other direction decided to turn right in front of the bus? Would you blame the bus for not watching out for its own safety? Obviously not.

Yes, seriously. The driver may have been a bit fast starting their manoeuvre but evidently were paying enough attention to spot the rider appear from the blind side of the van. Why compare a massive bus to a cyclist. That achieves nothing. Any confusion is in the attitudes of the cycling revolutionaries that seem all too ready to give their 2 peneth about the highway code and what drivers are required to do with little or no regard for rider personal safety. I'm all for calling out dangerous close passes and near misses, but this one dosnt register on the radar.

1. Not all buses are massive and my point stands with either taxis or motorcycles.
2. I merely stated the relevant Highway Code sections - not an interpretation of them.
3. You seem to be getting yourself all concerned because it was a cyclist - do you have some political stance against cyclists?

hawkinspeter wrote:

squidgy wrote:

hawkinspeter wrote:

squidgy wrote:

I sometimes despair at this attitude many current cyclists have that their own safety is the reposonsibilty of everyone else. I'm not alone here in thinking that the rider contributed greatly to the near miss and should have been aware of the potential danger. The driver stopped in time and there was no collision. In my mind this is just a case of one road user giving way to another. If we as cyclists are going to mix it with vehicles we have to be prepared for some give and take. There seems too much take and not much give from either party. Chris boardman is right that we all need to stop this them and us rhetoric and learn to coexist

Seriously?

A vehicle turning right does not have priority and must make sure that it is safe to do so.

A vehicle (e.g. a cyclist) continuing straight along a road does have priority (excepting crossings etc) and should not have to slow/stop at every possible junction that a careless driver may decide to pull into.

Personally, I'm always careful in this kind of scenario as I understand that some drivers don't understand the rules and how priority is supposed to work, even when it's clearly laid out in the Highway Code. So, I would use the bus/cycle lane but watch out for turning vehicles.

It's nothing to do with us/them - you're getting very confused. If a bus was progressing down a bus lane with a line of stationary traffic on its right, what would you think should happen if a cyclist coming the other direction decided to turn right in front of the bus? Would you blame the bus for not watching out for its own safety? Obviously not.

Yes, seriously. The driver may have been a bit fast starting their manoeuvre but evidently were paying enough attention to spot the rider appear from the blind side of the van. Why compare a massive bus to a cyclist. That achieves nothing. Any confusion is in the attitudes of the cycling revolutionaries that seem all too ready to give their 2 peneth about the highway code and what drivers are required to do with little or no regard for rider personal safety. I'm all for calling out dangerous close passes and near misses, but this one dosnt register on the radar.

1. Not all buses are massive and my point stands with either taxis or motorcycles.
2. I merely stated the relevant Highway Code sections - not an interpretation of them.
3. You seem to be getting yourself all concerned because it was a cyclist - do you have some political stance against cyclists?

I have been a cyclist for 30 years and intend to carry on being one. Riding like a dick and and shitting myself when a predictable incident occurs isn't something I've done for many a year. Experience counts for much and i learnt a lot commuting into London in previous years. Fortunately I don't have to deal the those hazards any more and my commute is mostly in country lanes, not without their own hazards particularly in darker months. My safety is my priority and not anyone else's. Ive found it works quite well.

squidgy wrote:

I have been a cyclist for 30 years and intend to carry on being one. Riding like a dick and and shitting myself when a predictable incident occurs isn't something I've done for many a year. Experience counts for much and i learnt a lot commuting into London in previous years. Fortunately I don't have to deal the those hazards any more and my commute is mostly in country lanes, not without their own hazards particularly in darker months. My safety is my priority and not anyone else's. Ive found it works quite well.

I'm still curious what your opinion would be if a taxi was proceeding along the lane where the cyclist was and the right-turning car performed exactly the same maneouvre. Care to enlighten me?

hawkinspeter wrote:

squidgy wrote:

I have been a cyclist for 30 years and intend to carry on being one. Riding like a dick and and shitting myself when a predictable incident occurs isn't something I've done for many a year. Experience counts for much and i learnt a lot commuting into London in previous years. Fortunately I don't have to deal the those hazards any more and my commute is mostly in country lanes, not without their own hazards particularly in darker months. My safety is my priority and not anyone else's. Ive found it works quite well.

I'm still curious what your opinion would be if a taxi was proceeding along the lane where the cyclist was and the right-turning car performed exactly the same maneouvre. Care to enlighten me?

No way in the world would a taxi driver drift into a dangerous situation like that.They've had too much experience.If a collision had occurred the turning driver would be liable,of course.Up to that point it's up to both drivers to drive with due care and attention.

Argus Tuft wrote:

No way in the world would a taxi driver drift into a dangerous situation like that.

I take it you have never been in a taxi nor ever seen one.

hirsute wrote:

Argus Tuft wrote:

No way in the world would a taxi driver drift into a dangerous situation like that.

I take it you have never been in a taxi nor ever seen one.

Not in the UK,I'm sorry to say!

Argus Tuft wrote:

hawkinspeter wrote:

squidgy wrote:

I have been a cyclist for 30 years and intend to carry on being one. Riding like a dick and and shitting myself when a predictable incident occurs isn't something I've done for many a year. Experience counts for much and i learnt a lot commuting into London in previous years. Fortunately I don't have to deal the those hazards any more and my commute is mostly in country lanes, not without their own hazards particularly in darker months. My safety is my priority and not anyone else's. Ive found it works quite well.

I'm still curious what your opinion would be if a taxi was proceeding along the lane where the cyclist was and the right-turning car performed exactly the same maneouvre. Care to enlighten me?

No way in the world would a taxi driver drift into a dangerous situation like that.They've had too much experience.If a collision had occurred the turning driver would be liable,of course.Up to that point it's up to both drivers to drive with due care and attention.

I'd like to meet one of your taxi drivers, they seem nice.

In my experience, the Taxi driver would be going more than 24mph, using a GPS device stuck to their windscreen and also sending texts on their phone hidden down the right hand side of their seat.

<p>[quote=hawkinspeter]</p>

<p>[quote=Argus T[/quote]I'd like to meet one of your taxi drivers, they seem nice./</p>

We've evolved a unique transport system on the Southern Moreton Bay Islands.

There are no Vehicle Inspection Facilities,it's an honour system,basically.Ex mainland vehicles are virtually free.Registration is half the normal fee.Inter-Island passenger transport is free.If you're a bit short and need to get to the mainland just turn up at at the vehicle barge and ask a car driver if you can be their "passenger".Even though cars are cheap,bikes are everywhere.Homebrew Ebikes are popular.A mate of mine has a mid drive and a hubmotor on the same bike.The Police use discretion wisely.

A local would never drive past anyone who looks like they'd like a lift.It's somewhere between Communism and Anarchy,and it works perfectly.

We have taxis,but not as you know them.They're superannuated 12 seater Maxitaxis and more or less meet the ferries,picking up other passengers as required. The fare structure couldn't be simpler-$5 up to 5 ks radius,$10 everywhere else.If you're off for a night out at the RSL or the bowls club (there's nowhere else) you're picked up and taken home gratis.

It's cycling heaven-a mix of sealed roads and miles of gravel backroads through the bush,with firetrails and some difficult sections for the adventurous.In most Australian states,riding on the footpath (pavement) is permitted and it seems to work ok.
Sorry to go off topic,but you did mention taxis!

Argus Tuft wrote:

hawkinspeter wrote:

I'd like to meet one of your taxi drivers, they seem nice.

We've evolved a unique transport system on the Southern Moreton Bay Islands. There are no Vehicle Inspection Facilities,it's an honour system,basically.Ex mainland vehicles are virtually free.Registration is half the normal fee.Inter-Island passenger transport is free.If you're a bit short and need to get to the mainland just turn up at at the vehicle barge and ask a car driver if you can be their "passenger".Even though cars are cheap,bikes are everywhere.Homebrew Ebikes are popular.A mate of mine has a mid drive and a hubmotor on the same bike.The Police use discretion wisely. A local would never drive past anyone who looks like they'd like a lift.It's somewhere between Communism and Anarchy,and it works perfectly. We have taxis,but not as you know them.They're superannuated 12 seater Maxitaxis and more or less meet the ferries,picking up other passengers as required. The fare structure couldn't be simpler-$5 up to 5 ks radius,$10 everywhere else.If you're off for a night out at the RSL or the bowls club (there's nowhere else) you're picked up and taken home gratis. It's cycling heaven-a mix of sealed roads and miles of gravel backroads through the bush,with firetrails and some difficult sections for the adventurous.In most Australian states,riding on the footpath (pavement) is permitted and nobody dies. Sorry to go off topic,but you did mention taxis!

That sounds lovely and quite at odds with a lot of Australian states' attitudes to cyclists (and tailgating being a past-time).

I've eaten some Moreton Bay Bugs when I was visiting a friend in Brisbane - very tasty!