General Election: Where do the parties stand on cycling?

Mungecrundle wrote:

Being in the "Anyone but Jeremy or Boris" camp, I was prepared to be disappointed this morning, but wow! I feel like we have ducked a bullet but only because we are stooping to pick up the live grenade of BrExit. But the people have spoken and as far as I am concerned confirmed the first vote. So time for me to shut up about that and get on with ensuring my own bunker is well stocked and zombie proof. If there are any silver linings: The conservative majority is so huge that there may be more leeway for MPs to disagree with party on behalf of the best interests of their constituents. BrExit may be a softer affair as there is no need to accomodate the ERG or pay any attention to Nigel Farrage. The DUP can go do one. No more fat payouts from the British taxpayer. Best of all - No more general elections for 5 years.

Don't be too sure.  Despite the fixed term parliament act, we've had three in five years anyway, and when the report into Russian interference in our elections is eventually published, and it shows that the referendum and subsequent elections, including this one, were sabotaged, we might have one rather sooner than you think.  Assuming of course that Boris doesn't bury it so deep that it will never be found.

burtthebike wrote:

 and when the report into Russian interference in our elections is eventually published, and it shows that the referendum and subsequent elections, including this one, were sabotaged, we might have one rather sooner than you think.  Assuming of course that Boris doesn't bury it so deep that it will never be found.

Too much Scooby Doo for this man.

Replace the tinfoil hat with a plastic one from Planet X as they've got a good sale on at the moment.

Rick_Rude wrote:

Worst Labour result since 1935 but Corbyn still won't immediately get on his bike.

If a Blair type (without the war) Labour was the opposition it would have been a different story. The UK clearly doesn't want Corbyn when he lost some pretty strong Labour seats.

So if the Labour opposition had been (much ) more like the Conservatives then they would have done better?  OK, then...

brooksby wrote:

Rick_Rude wrote:

Worst Labour result since 1935 but Corbyn still won't immediately get on his bike.

If a Blair type (without the war) Labour was the opposition it would have been a different story. The UK clearly doesn't want Corbyn when he lost some pretty strong Labour seats.

So if the Labour opposition had been (much ) more like the Conservatives then they would have done better?  OK, then...

Traditionally Britain isn't really a country of political extremes so yes, centre left would clearly have done better than far left has. When you've lost Blyth and Redcar then something is wrong with the Labour party.

Rick_Rude wrote:

brooksby wrote:

Rick_Rude wrote:

Worst Labour result since 1935 but Corbyn still won't immediately get on his bike.

If a Blair type (without the war) Labour was the opposition it would have been a different story. The UK clearly doesn't want Corbyn when he lost some pretty strong Labour seats.

So if the Labour opposition had been (much ) more like the Conservatives then they would have done better?  OK, then...

Traditionally Britain isn't really a country of political extremes so yes, centre left would clearly have done better than far left has. When you've lost Blyth and Redcar then something is wrong with the Labour party.

Effectively this is a by-election or local council election protest vote but on a national scale. The challenge for Boris now is to do enough to convince those communities to vote Tory in 2024.

Of course, that may not matter because if Scotland votes for independence that's 50+ potential Labour votes gone forever and I don't see how they could ever win a majority just in England & Wales under FPTP. Ageing population isn't helping, if you assume that the older you get the more likely you are to vote Tory.

Jimmy Walnuts wrote:

Johnson might have had a chubby racist sweating handing in increasing cycling LONDON, but that’s all. Just LONDON. Although most folk who live in LONDON (and a good whack of the cycling press who are probaly based in LONDON) consider LONDON to be the UK.  In reality, Doris/Joris/Boris/that upper-class racist has done f*ck all for cycling and active travel across the rest of the country.

He just wants to spend a few more years "getting Brexit done" and then he'll get started on it.

ktache wrote:

Yes, it's not that someone insulted a sizeable proportion of a religious community and the way they choose to dress, comparing them to awful, violent criminals, in their own column, in a national newspaper.  Now that would be an anti-religious rant you could straight out quote and maybe want to investigate.

I think that Johnson's comments about "bum boys in tight T-shirts" (can't remember the exact phrasing, can't be bothered to google it) might come across as a teensy bit homophobic, too...

brooksby wrote:

ktache wrote:

Yes, it's not that someone insulted a sizeable proportion of a religious community and the way they choose to dress, comparing them to awful, violent criminals, in their own column, in a national newspaper.  Now that would be an anti-religious rant you could straight out quote and maybe want to investigate.

I think that Johnson's comments about "bum boys in tight T-shirts" (can't remember the exact phrasing, can't be bothered to google it) might come across as a teensy bit homophobic, too...

https://www.businessinsider.com/boris-johnson-women-gay-people-sexism-bumboys-totty-toby-young-2018-1?r=US&IR=T

"Tank-topped bum boys" were his words.

Don't forget his attitude towards women as well: "voting Tory will cause your wife to have bigger breasts" (Johnson - 2005).

I don't think his opinions on anyone not like himself (rich, white, male, heterosexual and living in London) are necessarily the worst thing about him - it's his complete self-serving lack of integrity and honesty that makes him unfit to be PM.

visionset wrote:

Well keeping this cycling. I do hope if you've voted tory today then when you're up shit creek cos of negligible investment in active travel and no real efforts to curb the congestion and car love mentality that's put you in hosipital, sorry tried to put you in hospital as you're lying in the gutter and there's no one to help as you're stepped over, probably spat at, cos everyone elses life is more important.  Ambulance isn't coming anytime soon. Probably going to get a massive bill and then that injury that haunts you for years isn't covered by your insurance, if you have any. 
Sorry but you get the drift. You're a keen cyclist and your voting for who. FFS get a grip. You can vote for new hope or you can vote for horrible policy and proven liars. Lying right now with all the evidence from the party in power.

Nothing says 'kinder, gentler politics' like wishing serious injury and lifelong suffering on your political opponents.

Rich_cb wrote:

visionset wrote:

Well keeping this cycling. I do hope if you've voted tory today then when you're up shit creek 

 

Nothing says 'kinder, gentler politics' like wishing serious injury and lifelong suffering on your political opponents.

I didn't say that. My wish is you think when that happens.  

hawkinspeter wrote:

@Rich_cb - interesting graph as I did not know that the UK were performing well with CO2. I do notice that it excludes shipping and aviation, but I presume that the UK has a similar shipping/flying profile as other countries.

Though cutting CO2 is important, I'm also very concerned about air quality and the UK does not seem to be performing well with particulate emissions and certainly the air in Bristol is consistently above the legal targets (i.e. illegally noxious).

Yes, this is a problem in Cardiff too.

This is mostly due to diesel engines in Cardiff, probably similar in Bristol.

Cardiff Council and The Welsh Assembly have so far declined to pursue any interventions similar to that proposed with the Bristol diesel ban.

The UK government is launching a huge subsidy for EVs next year which will, amongst other things, apparently lead to Cardiff meeting EU rules on noxious emissions within 5 years.

I'm not holding my breath.

Rich_cb wrote:

hawkinspeter wrote:

@Rich_cb - interesting graph as I did not know that the UK were performing well with CO2. I do notice that it excludes shipping and aviation, but I presume that the UK has a similar shipping/flying profile as other countries.

Though cutting CO2 is important, I'm also very concerned about air quality and the UK does not seem to be performing well with particulate emissions and certainly the air in Bristol is consistently above the legal targets (i.e. illegally noxious).

Yes, this is a problem in Cardiff too. This is mostly due to diesel engines in Cardiff, probably similar in Bristol. Cardiff Council and The Welsh Assembly have so far declined to pursue any interventions similar to that proposed with the Bristol diesel ban. The UK government is launching a huge subsidy for EVs next year which will, amongst other things, apparently lead to Cardiff meeting EU rules on noxious emissions within 5 years. I'm not holding my breath.

Oops - I just edited my comment (to add bits about the CO2 decrease being mainly due to reduced coal usage) and it's now leapfrogged your reply.

I also added that traffic emissions have been increasing since 2012, so maybe we should be holding our collective breaths!

Though I prefer EVs to ICE vehicles, they're not going to make a huge difference unless people change their transport habits. Apparently SUVs are now out-selling EVs by 37 to 1!

http://www.ukerc.ac.uk/news/suvs-sabotage-green-revolution.html

iandusud wrote:

To achieve anything there has to be the political will. Clearly the Tories have no will to invest in active travel so it won't happen under them. The Labour party has expressed the will to do it, so no matter how cynical you are at least there's a chance of it happening. 

The thought of what will happen to public services and, probably more importantly, to the fight to reverse the climate crisis under another Tory government frightens and depresses me. 

Active travel is a fair point, the Conservative promise is pretty dismal.

For those of us that live in Wales the idea that Labour will save our public services is also fairly laughable.

Our schools recently ranked dead last in the UK, again.
Our health service also significantly underperforms relative to England and Scotland. (Not sure about NI).
These are all run by Labour in Wales.

As for the environment, the UK has been one of the world's leading nations in terms of decarbonisation over the past decade.

Criticism of public services and active travel is legitimate but you can't really criticise their environmental credentials.

Like it or not the numbers speak for themselves.

Source:
https://fullfact.org/environment/uk-greenhouse-gas-emissions/

Rich_cb wrote:

iandusud wrote:

To achieve anything there has to be the political will. Clearly the Tories have no will to invest in active travel so it won't happen under them. The Labour party has expressed the will to do it, so no matter how cynical you are at least there's a chance of it happening. 

The thought of what will happen to public services and, probably more importantly, to the fight to reverse the climate crisis under another Tory government frightens and depresses me. 

Active travel is a fair point, the Conservative promise is pretty dismal. For those of us that live in Wales the idea that Labour will save our public services is also fairly laughable. Our schools recently ranked dead last in the UK, again. Our health service also significantly underperforms relative to England and Scotland. (Not sure about NI). These are all run by Labour in Wales. As for the environment, the UK has been one of the world's leading nations in terms of decarbonisation over the past decade. Criticism of public services and active travel is legitimate but you can't really criticise their environmental credentials. Like it or not the numbers speak for themselves. Source: https://fullfact.org/environment/uk-greenhouse-gas-emissions/

Except that the decarbonisation has been achieved by exporting it, and our manufacturing, abroad, so we haven't actually reduced much, if at all.  If all the manufactured goods we import, including the CO2 generated by transporting it here, was counted, there is very little, if any, change.

burtthebike wrote:

Rich_cb wrote:

iandusud wrote:

To achieve anything there has to be the political will. Clearly the Tories have no will to invest in active travel so it won't happen under them. The Labour party has expressed the will to do it, so no matter how cynical you are at least there's a chance of it happening. 

The thought of what will happen to public services and, probably more importantly, to the fight to reverse the climate crisis under another Tory government frightens and depresses me. 

Active travel is a fair point, the Conservative promise is pretty dismal. For those of us that live in Wales the idea that Labour will save our public services is also fairly laughable. Our schools recently ranked dead last in the UK, again. Our health service also significantly underperforms relative to England and Scotland. (Not sure about NI). These are all run by Labour in Wales. As for the environment, the UK has been one of the world's leading nations in terms of decarbonisation over the past decade. Criticism of public services and active travel is legitimate but you can't really criticise their environmental credentials. Like it or not the numbers speak for themselves. Source: https://fullfact.org/environment/uk-greenhouse-gas-emissions/

Except that the decarbonisation has been achieved by exporting it, and our manufacturing, abroad, so we haven't actually reduced much, if at all.  If all the manufactured goods we import, including the CO2 generated by transporting it here, was counted, there is very little, if any, change.

No - the CO2 reduction is mainly down to burning less coal and using more natural gas/nuclear/wind etc. Reduced manufacturing has played a part as well.

hawkinspeter wrote:

burtthebike wrote:

Rich_cb wrote:

iandusud wrote:

To achieve anything there has to be the political will. Clearly the Tories have no will to invest in active travel so it won't happen under them. The Labour party has expressed the will to do it, so no matter how cynical you are at least there's a chance of it happening. 

The thought of what will happen to public services and, probably more importantly, to the fight to reverse the climate crisis under another Tory government frightens and depresses me. 

Active travel is a fair point, the Conservative promise is pretty dismal. For those of us that live in Wales the idea that Labour will save our public services is also fairly laughable. Our schools recently ranked dead last in the UK, again. Our health service also significantly underperforms relative to England and Scotland. (Not sure about NI). These are all run by Labour in Wales. As for the environment, the UK has been one of the world's leading nations in terms of decarbonisation over the past decade. Criticism of public services and active travel is legitimate but you can't really criticise their environmental credentials. Like it or not the numbers speak for themselves. Source: https://fullfact.org/environment/uk-greenhouse-gas-emissions/

Except that the decarbonisation has been achieved by exporting it, and our manufacturing, abroad, so we haven't actually reduced much, if at all.  If all the manufactured goods we import, including the CO2 generated by transporting it here, was counted, there is very little, if any, change.

No - the CO2 reduction is mainly down to burning less coal and using more natural gas/nuclear/wind etc. Reduced manufacturing has played a part as well.

The irony being that Thatcher kick-started climate-change research, founding the Hadley Centre, precisely because she saw it as a weapon against the hated NUM.

As I understand it, UK declining emissions is down both to the shift from manufacturing to financial services, and the shift to gas over coal. The former makes us vulnerable to global financial hiccups the latter makes us dependent on imported fuel, but it seems it's not all bad.

Neither was specifically a climate-change policy, but it's a happy coincidence. Clouds and silver-linings and all that.

burtthebike wrote:

Except that the decarbonisation has been achieved by exporting it, and our manufacturing, abroad, so we haven't actually reduced much, if at all.  If all the manufactured goods we import, including the CO2 generated by transporting it here, was counted, there is very little, if any, change.

Given your track record Burt I'm going to need a (reliable) source for that.

Rich_cb wrote:

iandusud wrote:

To achieve anything there has to be the political will. Clearly the Tories have no will to invest in active travel so it won't happen under them. The Labour party has expressed the will to do it, so no matter how cynical you are at least there's a chance of it happening. 

The thought of what will happen to public services and, probably more importantly, to the fight to reverse the climate crisis under another Tory government frightens and depresses me. 

Active travel is a fair point, the Conservative promise is pretty dismal. For those of us that live in Wales the idea that Labour will save our public services is also fairly laughable. Our schools recently ranked dead last in the UK, again. Our health service also significantly underperforms relative to England and Scotland. (Not sure about NI). These are all run by Labour in Wales. As for the environment, the UK has been one of the world's leading nations in terms of decarbonisation over the past decade. Criticism of public services and active travel is legitimate but you can't really criticise their environmental credentials. Like it or not the numbers speak for themselves. Source: https://fullfact.org/environment/uk-greenhouse-gas-emissions/

It is shameful that health service and schools in Wales are seriously underperforming, but the funding (or lack of it) comes from central government.

It is fantastic that the UK is cutting its carbon emissions. That is in large part to the stopping of burning coal in favour of other forms of electricity production, which is great. However cutting of subsidies for solar power is not. We need to be investing more in renewables. If we are leading the way in reducing carbon emissions then that is a good thing, and if we keep it up it will hopefully encourage others to follow suit. Just like we led the way in abolishing slavery for example.

The graph looks impresive but it also indicates how bad things were. Our CO2 per capita figures are still higher than say France or Italy who are above the UK in that graph. Also that graph, for some bizare (convenient) reason doesn't include air travel or shipping. The UK has one of the highest rates of flights per capita in the world, higher than the USA where internal domestic flights are commonplace. UK air travel has steadily increased over the period covered by the graph. We also, by the very nature of being an island, have a huge dependency on shipping.