"I gave a warning toot": Confused driver can't understand why cyclist "hurled abuse"; Giro stage or BMX race? (+ Ewan exits); Prosecco-popping alternative; The cycle lane impossible dream; Bikes meet bouldering; Positive policing + more on the live blog

No

It absolutely isn't just you, it's a despicable practice in my opinion which insults the race and the efforts of those sprinters like Cavendish who do everything they can to finish the race. If I had my way anyone not finishing a race would forfeit all the world ranking points gained for stage wins (if they get them? Not sure) and all prize money unless they could offer a genuine reason for withdrawal certified by an independent physician. In fact I'd go further and say anyone who doesn't finish (without the aforementioned genuine excuse) loses any stage wins and instead they would be awarded to the highest-placed finisher on each stage who actually finished the race.

didnt Cav pull out of his first TdF ?

Awavey wrote:

didnt Cav pull out of his first TdF ?

He did, but he abandoned because he was beat up after crashing on stages one and two and found he just couldn't cope with the physical demands, he didn't go in with the plan to abandon from the start - very different. His own description at the time is here, if you're interested: https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2007/jul/16/cycling.tourdefrance2

2007...ok then I meant didnt Cav pull out of his 2nd TdF ?

edit: it was his first stage win year, that probably got me mixed up

Awavey wrote:

2007...ok then I meant didnt Cav pull out of his 2nd TdF ?

edit: it was his first stage win year, that probably got me mixed up

Fair point yes, to concentrate on the Olympics (which backfired rather as he got nothing at the Olympics and he was on fire at the Tour with four stages, if he'd stayed and taken one of the two flat stages left he'd now have beaten Merckx's record!), though as far as I can recall that's the only time he's done it unlike serial one-week-only pothunters like McEwen and Cipollini.

At this point I would normally post a picture of a naked and oiled Mario Cipollini, rider of the magnificent saeco train, who would ride the first week of the Tour, when it was flat and leave before a slight hill.

But I'm on a tablet and it is much more difficult to post said picture of the maned shiny Adonis...

The BikeSnob has him covered (along with being pals with Lance...) so you don't have to.

More of this please.

If he sells his car and buys a bike, he might be able to cancel his gym membership as well - quids in!

Obviously the person has never heard of a second hand car.  He could easily sell his £37k motor, by a nice mid to high end bike for £3-4K, pay for all of his taxi's and rail fares for 6 months, and still have enough to buy himself a £15k second hand car.

Glad the judge told him to do one

"The company boss said he was on benefits" & 37k Car & member of a gym

something not right inall of that !

#squeezedmiddle (after sit-ups) #hardworkingfamilies #waronthemotorist

It's the cost of living high on the hog crisis.

Also don't forget the guy with the house in central London a month or so back who also somehow couldn't get around without the expensive motor or afford any other form of transport.  Oystercards must be pretty extortionate now.  Maybe that's why I saw the Queen using one the other day?

He gets some diability benefit due to a serious injury, so I guess it is not means tested.

He should hit up Road.cc for some budget cycling recommendations:

https://road.cc/content/feature/roadcc-superbike-year-202021-279533

John Stevenson has been deleting posts again !

Mungecrundle wrote:

Surely it's all in the perception. If we only acknowledge use of the horn as the intended HC guidance as a warning of presence, then it's easier not to react at the time.

The problem is horns are very loud and intrinsically unpleasant and agressive. Imagine walking up behind a person from a car free culture and who had never heard a car horn before in their life and sounding it just behind their back. My guess is that they'd react with surprise, fear and then aggression.

*On the other hand I do remember when I spent some time in countries (Indonesia or Sri Lanka for example) where all vehicles used their horns constantly to indicate their presence and to try and push their way through traffic, I quickly became desensitized to their use and the tooting started sounding much less personal and more just a reflection of the busy energy of local life. However that kind of cultural shift is huge and I doubt it's something we would welcome in the UK as it makes for a really raucous urban environment. I also seem to remember that might is right was very much the dominant attitude on the roads in those countries so I doubt the general road culture there would suit cyclists much.

mallardz wrote:

*On the other hand I do remember when I spent some time in countries (Indonesia or Sri Lanka for example) where all vehicles used their horns constantly to indicate their presence and to try and push their way through traffic, I quickly became desensitized to their use and the tooting started sounding much less personal and more just a reflection of the busy energy of local life. However that kind of cultural shift is huge and I doubt it's something we would welcome in the UK as it makes for a really raucous urban environment. I also seem to remember that might is right was very much the dominant attitude on the roads in those countries so I doubt the general road culture there would suit cyclists much.

Good cultural notes.  And it's always worth widening our perspective beyond our western (european) focus.  I recall similar "negotiation" on urban roads in Thailand.  It really is chaos but it "works" because speeds are very low in the most crowded areas.  Plus even locals are a bit wary of elephants!

However although we might get some useful observations from such environments (very low speed / negotiation / self-organised flow) I think we should be extremely careful about trying to generalise - much less import from such countries.  They are very different in lots of ways.  I think most have horrific road casualty statistics - where they're even measured.  As you say differences in size / vulnerability / maneouvering characteristics mean that these - like western "shared space" environments - quickly degenerate into "might is right" and the rule of the large (motor) vehicle.

chrisonatrike wrote:

Good cultural notes.  And it's always worth widening our perspective beyond our western (european) focus.  I recall similar "negotiation" on urban roads in Thailand.  It really is chaos but it "works" because speeds are very low in the most crowded areas.  Plus even locals are a bit wary of elephants!

However although we might get some useful observations from such environments (very low speed / negotiation / self-organised flow) I think we should be extremely careful about trying to generalise - much less import from such countries.  They are very different in lots of ways.  I think most have horrific road casualty statistics - where they're even measured.  As you say differences in size / vulnerability / maneouvering characteristics mean that these - like western "shared space" environments - quickly degenerate into "might is right" and the rule of the large (motor) vehicle.

I don't think we should be looking to copy any road safety tips from Thailand - they're the worst country for road deaths per population, outside of Africa.

Mungecrundle wrote:

If we only acknowledge use of the horn as the intended HC guidance as a warning of presence, then it's easier not to react at the time.

But a 'warning' implies that you need to react, by doing (or not doing) something.

There's no reason to warn someone who is behaving in a predictable manner.

Cars need an alternative 'horn' for this kind of warning that just makes the sound of a polite cough