"I gave a warning toot": Confused driver can't understand why cyclist "hurled abuse"; Giro stage or BMX race? (+ Ewan exits); Prosecco-popping alternative; The cycle lane impossible dream; Bikes meet bouldering; Positive policing + more on the live blog

That might be how it's supposed to work, but it rarely seems to be that way in practice. It usually seems to be on busier shared paths / cycle tracks, and means they want me to move over so they can squeeze through a gap that's currently too small.

Besides which, if there's already space to pass, and you don't need me to react in any way, why bother to start with? And if you really feel you have to say something, why not just 'passing', which conveys what you're trying to communicate without confusing me with irrelevant puzzling over which side is in question?

True on busier paths, not that I encounter many of them, busy or paths for that matter, they might be trying to make the space, I still wouldnt move

As to why they do it when the gaps already there, its about confidence in what they think you are going to do next. I'd always give a teen deliberately wobbling round on a bike far more space to pass then say a fellow roadie simply because I've more trust in the latters bike handling not to suddenly veer into my path.

I dont call out though,or use a bell, I've a nice loudish freewheel instead if I need to make my presence known, but ever since a pedestrian on a dedicated cycle path I was on,which ws separated by an ankle busting high fence from the adjacent completely empty footpath I've no idea why she was walking on the cycle lane bit at all as it was covered in leaf mulch too whilst the footpath had been cleared (guess where half the leaves came from), actually reacted to my ringing bell just to let them know I was there by then stepping completely into my path and to avoid a head on collision, remember the fence so I couldnt just veer away, I had to yank the brakes so hard, lifted the back wheel which considering it had about 7kg of weight with the panniers and what I was carrying was some feat, and stripped the brake cables out of their mounts.

Why did you step in front of me? I panicked, ok well dont do that next time please. Ever since then I just pick the gap and be past before they notice.

HoarseMann wrote:

Yep, I wouldn't yell 'on your right' at a pedestrian. I've only ever deployed that on other riders during a cycling event.

There's a reason trams have bells and horns. Ashley Neal is not the only one confused about this, the blackbeltbarrister had a bit of an unconvincing rant about it too... https://youtu.be/cW_cSfOqmn4

This morning, approaching a runner from behind on a narrow shared-use path:

"Excuse me"

"Excuse me"

"Excuuuuuse me!"

"EXCUUUSE MEEE!!!"

ping-ping-ping

(runner lifts earbud from his ear and moves over to one side)

+1 The dog normally gets it but the owner...

You'll always piss someone off.  I'll always slacken off the speed a bit but I tend to not make any noise if I can pass safely.  Constant ringing - same as lots of horns - is irritating and self-defeating.  Silent passing only applies if I can see them from some distance away, there is lots of space and the pedestrian's holding their line.  Otherwise I ring a fair distance away, watch for a reaction and if there's time repeat.  If I've closed right up to them I speak to them - a bell's rude.  And at that point I've slowed to walking pace anyway because there's clearly not lots of space to pass.

After all that I've still had some angry man chase me down a path because his partner was startled even though I'd passed wide and just above walking pace.  I was delighted to fill in as his banter and running coach until he realised his body shape was optimised for power but not endurance...

I'm struggling to see why the driver needed to use their horn to pass a cyclist if they were fully into the other lane.  It just makes no sense unless it was an attempt to intimidate the cyclist.

One of my successful prosecutions involved a car driver making aggressive use of the horn.  Cycling on narrow lane, they tooted when they were a good distance behind which I had no issue with, but before I got to a place where I could pull in to let them past they were behind me repeatedly blasting their horn.  After the first toot I needed to cycle maybe 200m before I got to a point where they could pass, the video showed from the first toot it took me 22 seconds to reach a point where it was safe to pull in.  To cap it all off as they drove by me the wound their window down shouting obscenties at me.

They did however learn an important lesson.... when you are driving a car which has neither an MOT nor VED it's best to not draw attention to yourself.  They were prosecuted for careless driving and the MOT/VED failures and the car was seized and I'm guessing destroyed because shortly after submission of the video it stopped showing up on the MOT check.

On the subject of passing pedestrians on shared use paths.  I agree with you chris, that in general where possible I try to pass slow and wide without announcing my presence.  Where I need to I will generally say excuse me on the approach to the pedestrians after reducing my speed, making sure they have sufficient time to respond and if they don't say it again more loudly.  In general that works but occasionally they will simply not respond so I end up cycling round them on the verge.

I did however have an entertaining incident over the weekend.  Cycling on a shared use path, with a large group of silver surfer pedestrians walking towards me.  I said excuse me and slowed down which despite them walking towards me was soundly ignored.  I had to stop at the edge of the path because the verge was not suitable to ride on.... and while stopped one of the group walks into my stationary bike..... then tells me to look where I am going.......

I think there can be some comparison to be made between the attitude of some drivers and cyclists when they do this; impatience, not thinking about the other road users, mgif etc, basically prioritising their unimpeded progress over anything else.

However as you say the difference in scale is all important and the effect on the 'victim' is very different in my experience. As a keen walker and non-cyclist for most of my life, cyclists ringing bells just behind me on shared paths happened occasionally and could be unpleasant but fell into the category of rudeness. I never felt scared or particularly intimidated. It was usually the lack of a thank you afterwards that would really get my goat.*

As a neophyte cyclist however I have already had many incidents when I've been cycling near the speed limit only to have a car drive right up behind me, rev its engine and beep loudly. It can be really really intimidating, surprising and shook me up so much once I exploded into a tirade of bad language and was ready for a showdown with the driver. I still haven't worked out how best to deal with these kinds of behaviour on the road and it really is one of the big barriers preventing me from cycling more often and from recommending cycling to others.

*The approach I take as a cyclist now and what I liked as a pedestrian is for the cyclist to slow down to walking pace at which point a simple greeting or 'excuse me' does the trick followed by a 'thank you' as you go past. Edit- as others have pointed out, shouting 'on your right' to pedestrians is especially confusing and annoying.

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Good, balanced response.

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Take care - will not go down well on here.

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Can't win this one.

Go past without the bell and they demand you use it. Use the bell and they jump in shock, and do something stupid like cross the path to "get out of the way".

If some kind of general solution to this was available.  Maybe an engineering one...?  No, obviously not possible in the UK. [1] [2] [but how will they cross the cycle path?] [more academic paper] [but what about the countryside?]

I find it surprising how some people hear a single-ding bell from quite a distance away. I use mine early enough that I will have allowed them time to react and still be able to ring it 3 times before actually meeting them.  Sometimes, I'm sure they don't realise theyve heard it, but it registers subconsciously and they look.

Always best to give advance warning, repeat and then, "excuse me, can I pass on your

GMBasix wrote:

The fact remains that neither a cycle bell nor a moderated voice is aggressive in the way a car horn is. I miss older cars in that the horn used to have a more nuanced trigger, a little dab of the button could be more subtle and amenable; now they seem to be all or nothing.

Well, the only official use is to alert someone to your presence to avoid a collision, so they need to be loud and aggressive. The problem is drivers using them to try to communicate something different.

hawkinspeter wrote:

GMBasix wrote:

The fact remains that neither a cycle bell nor a moderated voice is aggressive in the way a car horn is. I miss older cars in that the horn used to have a more nuanced trigger, a little dab of the button could be more subtle and amenable; now they seem to be all or nothing.

Well, the only official use is to alert someone to your presence to avoid a collision, so they need to be loud and aggressive. The problem is drivers using them to try to communicate something different.

That is, of course, true. Old collective habits die hard.

P3t3 wrote:

Can't win this one.

Go past without the bell and they demand you use it. Use the bell and they jump in shock, and do something stupid like cross the path to "get out of the way".

I don't find it so difficult. I use my bell, or a loud "hello", but from far enough back as not to startle. With a little practice you get the balance between close enough to be heard (most of the time) yet not so close as to make them jump out of their skin. Honestly, I find most folk are perfectly pleasant.

If you find people always reacting like startled deer, reason says they are not getting enough warning of your approach. Expect them to be a bit crotchety then.

Well with fuel prices going the way they are, that premium unleaded doesnt pay for itself you know & got to feed the family of little Autobots somehow now the movies have ended, after all it's only Bumblebee & Optimus who get the big appearance bucks for car insurance ads

Those are really bad adverts.

The Optimus one is even worse than the bumblebee one should have finished after the first, much like the continuing Richard e grant argus series.