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Lance Armstrong snaps back at poll asking cycling fans if he should have wins reinstated; Bilbao wins stage three of Tour Down Under, Jay Vine takes race lead; Irish minister to get cycling bodyguard + more on the live blog

The weekend is in sight! Dan Alexander is on live blog duty for the final one of the week

SUMMARY

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20 January 2023, 08:50
Lance Armstrong snaps back at poll asking cycling fans if he should have victories reinstated

Yesterday was the 10-year anniversary of Lance Armstrong's confession — what did you do to mark the occasion? Take your cycling buddies out for a fancy meal? Ride to the spot where you first heard the news? Slice up an Oprah cake? Or go about your day blissfully unaware until someone in the cycling media inevitably mentioned he who cannot be named...

Lance Armstrong and Oprah Winfrey Photo by Maryse Alberti, Courtesy of Sony Pictures Classics

Reporting anything Armstrong does these days is normally met with the same barrage of 'who cares?', 'stop giving this guy air time' etc. etc. but if I have three Lance tokens a year (to mention what one of the most famous cyclists ever is doing with his life) I'm using one of them up on today's live blog.

Procyclingstats put out a Twitter poll asking whether Armstrong should have his wins reinstated. Perhaps unsurprisingly the results were fairly clear — 69 per cent said no — but more importantly the call to the people landed a big fish...

Baited by what he'd seen, Procyclingstats reeled in the big one...

You can say what you want about Lance, but asking every single professional cyclist he ever raced against is commitment to democracy personified. All in four hours after the poll was posted too... 

20 January 2023, 16:42
Pothole pain — a road.cc reader's tale

A road.cc reader has been in touch with their experience of the danger poor road surfaces can cause road users, in this case cyclists...

On January 2nd, while cycling home from the City to Twickenham, I encountered a pothole on Upper Richmond Road and attempted to avoid it. However, I ended up flying over the handlebars and landing on my head, causing severe pain and screaming.

I feared that something serious had occurred, such as a skull injury, and screamed for help. Passersby came to assist me and a doctor happened to be present and began to assess my condition. I attempted to sit up but my left arm was immobile and I realised it was injured. I was unable to determine the extent of my other injuries.

Someone called for an ambulance, however, due to the backlog it was estimated that it would take two to three hours for the ambulance to arrive. The doctor checked my spine and neck and determined that they were not injured, but the pain in my upper body was severe and I was unable to identify the source of the pain. He advised that due to the wet and cold conditions and the long wait for an ambulance, it would be best for me to try to get off the road. However, I was physically unable to move and scared about my condition, unsure of what to do next.

After about 15 minutes, I attempted to stand up with the help of others, but the pain was so intense that I was screaming. I still didn't know what was wrong with me. Across the road, there was a bike shop, and I was carried over there to warm up. I was in shock and couldn't believe what had happened.

The next day, we found out that the pothole had already been reported and filled. We were unsure of how the council had been informed but I remember one of the passersby saying that they had reported it a week earlier and couldn't believe it hadn't been fixed yet. It is possible that one of the passersby contacted them after my accident and reported an injury caused by the pothole, leading to it being fixed quickly.

I was given some strong painkillers and water. My wife was contacted and she decided to come and collect me instead of waiting for the ambulance to take me to the hospital. She arrived in 20 minutes and took me back home at 7:30.

My experience at the A&E department was extremely difficult. I had to wait for over 5 hours without receiving any attention from medical staff, which caused my wife and family to leave. I was in a wheelchair and had to navigate my way around the department while not knowing the extent of my injury.

During the night, I underwent several scans, during which I nearly passed out due to the severe pain. Unfortunately, there was no pain relief provided by the NHS and I was told that if I did not undergo the scans, my injury would not be treated properly. Despite feeling faint from the pain, I pushed through and eventually received a scan, after which a cast was put on my arm.

I was recently assessed and it was discovered that I had suffered multiple injuries, including broken ribs on my left side, a fracture in my elbow and damage to my neck. To ensure that my internal organs were not damaged, a CT scan was performed. The uncertainty of not knowing the extent of my injuries made the experience quite challenging

When the cast was put on my arm, I did not experience much pain relief. The medical staff did not inform me that they were going to attempt to reposition my bone. This caused me to experience the most excruciating pain of my life. After the cast was finally put on, about an hour later, I had to go back for another scan. The pain was so severe that I passed out during the procedure. It was a very difficult and traumatic experience.

I was later informed that my bone would never heal properly. To fix this, I had to undergo surgery on the weekend. After the surgery, I thought the worst was over, but soon after the doctors came back in and informed me that the cast had been applied incorrectly, so I had to go through another round of scans and have a new cast put on. This caused me to experience the same level of pain again and it was a very difficult and frustrating experience. I couldn't believe that I was going through this again and I was disappointed that I was not provided with adequate pain relief during my entire time in the hospital.

After the initial diagnosis, I had to wait several days before I could get the surgery on the weekend. Again, I was not provided with much pain relief, and the morphine that was given to me was not sufficient. My entire experience with the NHS was terrible, from the long wait times, to the lack of pain management. Even though I am now on the road to recovery, the whole experience has left me feeling scared and unsure about getting back on my bike. I hope that the situation in the NHS can improve soon, so that others don't have to go through a similar experience.

road.cc contacted the NHS Foundation Trust which runs the hospital the reader was treated at but has not received a reply.

The last thing we want this blog post to be is an attack on the hard work of healthcare professionals, especially during such difficult times, but it is hard to ignore the fact our reader's account makes for a worrying read.

Have you been treated in hospital for cycling-related injuries this winter? What was your experience?

20 January 2023, 16:12
Banned hit-and-run driver who killed cyclist then torched car jailed + a new petition
statue-justice-old-bailey-licensed-cc-2.0-flickr-ronnie-macdonald

> Banned hit-and-run driver who killed cyclist then torched car jailed

As Simon explains at the end of the story...

The sentencing coincides with ITV News highlighting a petition calling for lifetime bans for those convicted of causing death by dangerous driving – although, of course, in this case he was driving the vehicle despite already being disqualified.

The petition, hosted on the UK Parliament's website, was started by Angela Burke, whose 14-year-old daughter Courtney Ellis was killed in 2020 by speeding driver Brandon Turton.

The 21-year-old driver was subsequently jailed for six years and nine months after pleading guilty to causing death by dangerous driving, and banned from driving for seven years.

In the petition, Ms Bourke wrote:

I would like to change the law on 'if you are convicted for causing death by dangerous driving then a lifetime driving ban should be imposed', they should never be allowed to drive again.

My child was killed by a speeding driver, who was convicted of causing death by dangerous driving. My child suffered horrific instant death injuries, the driver was driving at speeds of 73-93mph when he hit her on a 30mph road, he was sentenced to 9 years minus 25 per cent reduction for going guilty also given a 7 year driving ban to start immediately, when he’s released he will have 4 years ban left. Driving is a luxury and it should be taken away if convicted of this crime. I've lost my child forever.

At the time of writing the petition, which remains open until 4 April, has attracted more than 5,200 signatures.

Should it reach 10,000 signatures, the government will be required to provide a response, and in the event it gathers 100,000 signatures, the issue will be considered for a House of Commons debate by the Backbench Business Committee.

20 January 2023, 14:41
So what did happen 10 years ago? Let's take a trip down memory lan(c)e

As we're 'celebrating' the tenth anniversary this week...

As ever road.cc Simon was on news duty, ready to catch all the action from Oprah's bombshell interview with Armstrong.

Lance Armstrong and Oprah Winfrey Photo by Maryse Alberti, Courtesy of Sony Pictures Classics

Such big news, in fact, it was split into two stories...

> Oprah interview Part 1: Lance Armstrong admits doping, but leaves many questions unanswered + reaction

"Did you ever take banned substances to enhance cycling performance?”" "Yes." Thus replied Lance Armstrong to the very first question put by Oprah Winfrey in part one of her interview with him that aired at 9pm Eastern Time in the United States yesterday evening. Admissions to using EPO, cortisone, testosterone and having illegal blood transfusions swiftly followed as he admitted he had doped his way to all seven of his Tour de France victories from 1999 to 2005. However, he strongly denied doping following his comeback in 2009.

From the outset, it was clear that Winfrey would not be giving Armstrong an easy ride. Her research had been meticulous, the questions were uncompromising, and each was preceded by a short montage that set the scene.

> Oprah interview Part 2: Lance Armstrong accepts little prospect of lifetime ban being lifted

Also on that day...

  • Heavy snowfall covered the United Kingdom, cancelling 395 flights at Heathrow.
  • News broadcasts included grim reports from the Syrian civil war.
  • A certain Mauricio Pochettino was appointed as Southampton's new manager.
  • Cardinal Antonios Naguib resigns as Patriarch of Alexandria and head of the Coptic Catholic Church.
  • NASA scientists beam a picture of Leonardo da Vinci's masterpiece, the Mona Lisa, to Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter, a spacecraft orbiting the Moon
  • Scream & Shout by will.i.am featuring Britney Spears was number one in the UK charts.

Wikipedia's good, isn't it...

20 January 2023, 12:47
Professional KOM hunting
20 January 2023, 12:05
But what do the fans think?

Lance might think he's got the support of the peloton and what supporters think is irrelevant, but we've got more than few of your thoughts on his latest comments...(for those of you who aren't feeling like Tom D)...

 

Andrew Mee in a rather lively Facebook comments section wrote: "I'll tell you one thing, you can't deny this guys determination and dedication to getting whatever the hell he wanted… Reminds me of other narcissists through history."

Garry Templeman: "Others were doping isn't an excuse. He'll probably be known as the biggest sports cheat in history, he will never get any of his titles back, not a chance. The fact he can't give up chasing this dream says it all about him."

 William Speed touched on a point made by many, that all the 'other stuff' beyond the doping riles many fans more than the actual doping...

The comments on social media roughly followed the pattern of Procyclingstats' poll, with some support for Armstrong (although mainly on Facebook, admittedly... make of that what you will)...

ShutTheFrontDawes had one of the more convincing tales (although did say they believe his punishment was fair) pointing to the inspiration the story (doped or not) brought many... "Everyone is probably going to hate me for saying this but... in my opinion Lance Armstrong is one of the most inspirational sportspersons in my memory. To do what he did despite his afflictions is, to me, amazing. Yes he doped — and I always suspected he did — but like everyone says, so did so many others. And he beat them all, despite his advanced and aggressive cancers.

"He inspired me to apply myself despite my own health conditions, and I was honoured to represent my university in rowing at BUCS championship level, despite having very active Crohn's disease.

"I think that the way he has been punished is fair and think that it is such a shame that he and so many athletes were able to dope to such an extent and for so long."

Anyway, get involved in the comments if you wish. We'll leave the reaction with this classic...

20 January 2023, 10:15
Sorry
Live blog comment 20/01/2023

Me or Lance?

20 January 2023, 10:46
Irish minister to get cycling bodyguard

After the Gardaí announced that all cabinet ministers are to receive protection officers, often seen in ministerial cars, Green Party leader Eamon Ryan has decided his should be a biking bodyguard.

The Irish Independent reports that Mr Ryan primarily cycles to his duties, with his new bodyguard to join him in riding around Dublin.

"There was a decision made by An Garda Síochána that we [cabinet ministers] will have protection officers," the politician explained.

"I suppose they will have to be flexible in my case because I will still be cycling. But that's something I have to work on with An Garda Síochána, to make sure it works for them as well as for me.

"I haven't seen as many of [Garda cycling units] as I used to, but yes, I'll be working with the guards to make sure it (cycling bodyguard support) works for them in whatever way, as well as for me."

20 January 2023, 09:34
Top 10 | BEST Road Bikes For 2023 Awards Show
20 January 2023, 09:21
Bilbao wins stage three of Tour Down Under, Jay Vine takes race lead

Jay Vine, Simon Yates and Pello Bilbao escaped the peloton on the third stage of Tour Down Under as the race crossed the brutal slopes of the Corkscrew on the now-familiar route to Campbelltown. Vine was happy to press on for GC time, leading out the wiry climbers behind in a repeat of stage 12 at the 2019 Tour de France when Yates pipped Bilbao for the first of two stage wins.

However, it was Bilbao who just about held on this morning, climbing to second on GC with his bonus seconds. Yates sits third, one second behind Bilbao who himself is 15 off Vine ahead of the final two stages this weekend.

Photo of the day?

Dan is the road.cc news editor and joined in 2020 having previously written about nearly every other sport under the sun for the Express, and the weird and wonderful world of non-league football for The Non-League Paper. Dan has been at road.cc for four years and mainly writes news and tech articles as well as the occasional feature. He has hopefully kept you entertained on the live blog too.

Never fast enough to take things on the bike too seriously, when he's not working you'll find him exploring the south of England by two wheels at a leisurely weekend pace, or enjoying his favourite Scottish roads when visiting family. Sometimes he'll even load up the bags and ride up the whole way, he's a bit strange like that.

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63 comments

Avatar
Patrick9-32 replied to ShutTheFrontDawes | 1 year ago
6 likes

Its not the doping that makes people hate amstrong with such vitriol. As you state, many others were doping. Its the campaign of intimidation, threats and violence against those who tried to expose the doping. Armstrong's sporting achievements despite his cancer may be inspirational but he is a bad person and he wouldn't have been able to attain those sporting achievements without the other stuff, he would have been banned from competition far, far sooner.  

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ShutTheFrontDawes replied to Patrick9-32 | 1 year ago
2 likes

He is a bad person, but unfortunately bad people tend to dominate the upper echelons in any field (not just sports). It should come as no surprise that the ruthless c*nts dominate more readily. As the old saying goes, nice guys finish last.

There are many things I respect about the guy, and many things I don't. But overall, he remains inspirational to me, especially as a reminder to not give up, and to not let my own shortcomings hold me back.

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NotNigel replied to ShutTheFrontDawes | 1 year ago
5 likes

I never expected Vince Vaughn to be on here.

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brooksby replied to NotNigel | 1 year ago
1 like

I thought Vince Vaughan was the good guy, and Ben Stiller was the baddie who believed all that guff about Nietzchean sport.

 

 

We are talking about 'Dodgeball', aren't we?

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NotNigel replied to brooksby | 1 year ago
0 likes

Aye, it's Vince Vaughan who he gives the inspiring speech to about not giving up etc

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Flintshire Boy replied to ShutTheFrontDawes | 1 year ago
0 likes

.

Was.

.

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ShutTheFrontDawes replied to Flintshire Boy | 1 year ago
3 likes
Flintshire Boy wrote:

.

Was.

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..
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Flamingo
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..
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....
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LeadenSkies replied to ShutTheFrontDawes | 1 year ago
3 likes

He also inspired me at the time and I was naive enough to believe his protestations he was clean. As a fellow testicular cancer survivor, I will never ever understand how he could have subsequently risked taking that crap just to win a bike race. He went from hero to below zero in my eyes and still has a lot of making amends to do before I will give him the time of day.

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peted76 | 1 year ago
4 likes

What I will say for Lord Voldemort is that he's made the past ten years very interesting. I must have watched a dozen hours of TV about it, written thousands of words online in various posts forums and spent hours discussing it with mates.

Cycling sport is entertainment.. then, in very appropriate context, the words of Gladiator Russell Crow to an crowd of bloodthirty spectators "Are you not entertained?"

..erm yes I am actually. 

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ktache replied to peted76 | 1 year ago
0 likes

Dave Walsh's Seven Deadly Sins was such a great read, found it incredibly difficult to put down and spent several days very, very tired.

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joe9090 | 1 year ago
16 likes

It was the bullying that makes him so toxic for me, rather than just the cheating...

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Penguin1 | 1 year ago
1 like

Lord Lance Armstrong. Every noticed 2nd - 180th in TDF behind him never protested that they should have won! Trained their whole life to win one of the biggest races in the world in any sport. But none protested - not one. Why? Let's just say maybe Lance is right, the guys he raced would poll in his favour! WADA denied cycling its chance to come clean by having an amnesty on drug taking. Noticed very people have given any up? US Govt threatened jail if his team mates lied under oath - that's why he got caught. They eventually dobbed him in but the actual facts of what happened at any particular team is still somewhat a mystery...  

He sounded like a prick and probably was. He did however do miracles in the cancer world which of course doesn't justify his behaviour at the time. But it is a fact whether you like him or not. 
As above this saga will never go away - there was a missed opportunity for all involved to come clean but it was missed...

Viva La Tour 

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Rendel Harris replied to Penguin1 | 1 year ago
7 likes

Penguin1 wrote:

But none protested - not one. Why?

It's not true to say that none spoke out, Filippo Simone and Christophe Bassons did and everyone saw where that got them, their careers destroyed on the direct orders of Armstrong.

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AlsoSomniloquism replied to Rendel Harris | 1 year ago
3 likes

Also remember LeMond and Trek. There were consequences for ever raising Armstrongs possible medications, either from him or from people/organisations heavily related to him.

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Car Delenda Est | 1 year ago
0 likes

Not a sport cycling person but am I right in thinking Lance is symbolic for tainting the image of the sport as a whole?

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peted76 replied to Car Delenda Est | 1 year ago
1 like

Car Delenda Est wrote:

Not a sport cycling person but am I right in thinking Lance is symbolic for tainting the image of the sport as a whole?

He was the most famous sportsperson on the planet for a while. His story inspired millions. As it turns out he was a horrible bar-steward who cheated. So yeah.. it's fair to say his was the biggest fall from grace in sporting history and with that tainted the sport as a whole. The moral question asked is should be be erased from history while others remain/ed? 

It's been what..fifteen years since his last race, ten years since him admitting to it publically. Does time passing even matter?

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peted76 | 1 year ago
2 likes

Voldemort has gone a long way in my eyes to redemption, but he's not forgiven. Never forgiven for being such an arsehole to people.. but for the actual cheating.. I'm of the general opinion that 90% of the peloton were cheating at the time. I hate the double standards, Eddy Merckx is held up as a cycling god but he's been caught multiple times and no one dares talk about him in the same breath as Lord Voldemort. 

There are so many 'that's not right' moments in cycling.. but we still get our knickers in a twist about his nibs.

Operación Puerto hurts more than Lance ever has. 

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Rendel Harris | 1 year ago
4 likes

Whom of the ones who were "in the battle" with you should we ask, Armstrong? Christophe Bassons? Filippo Simeoni? All the dozens and dozens of riders* who have titles and/or stage wins missing from their palmares because you cheated your way to them? Vaffanculo.

*Not all clean themselves, obviously...

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Patrick9-32 replied to Rendel Harris | 1 year ago
3 likes

I think that's his point...

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Patrick9-32 replied to Patrick9-32 | 1 year ago
2 likes

Patrick9-32 wrote:

I think that's his point...

Or, at least, I hope that's his point...

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ShutTheFrontDawes replied to Rendel Harris | 1 year ago
0 likes
Rendel Harris wrote:

Whom of the ones who were "in the battle" with you should we ask, Armstrong? Christophe Bassons? Filippo Simeoni? All the dozens and dozens of riders* who have titles and/or stage wins missing from their palmares because you cheated your way to them? Vaffanculo.

*Not all clean themselves, obviously...

I assumed that the answer to Armstrong's seemingly rhetorical question was "no". Am I missing something? Are there fellow racers who think he should have them reinstated?

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Wingguy replied to ShutTheFrontDawes | 1 year ago
3 likes

ShutTheFrontDawes wrote:

I assumed that the answer to Armstrong's seemingly rhetorical question was "no". Am I missing something? Are there fellow racers who think he should have them reinstated?

I think you're missing every single thing Armstrong has ever said on the subject! Lance 100% thinks he won his races fairly because in his mind all of his rivals were on the program too. 

Problem is that in his era racers who did commit to staying clean were nowhere near the top of the GC sheets, so to him they just don't count.

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ShutTheFrontDawes replied to Wingguy | 1 year ago
0 likes
Wingguy wrote:

ShutTheFrontDawes wrote:

I assumed that the answer to Armstrong's seemingly rhetorical question was "no". Am I missing something? Are there fellow racers who think he should have them reinstated?

I think you're missing every single thing Armstrong has ever said on the subject! Lance 100% thinks he won his races fairly because in his mind all of his rivals were on the program too. 

Problem is that in his era racers who did commit to staying clean were nowhere near the top of the GC sheets, so to him they just don't count.

I know that Armstrong has a serious victim complex, but he's not naive or stupid enough to think that his fellow competitors think he deserves mercy or forgiveness.

I think he feels that he does deserve forgiveness, but he knows that he does not have it.

He knows that if his fellow competitors were polled, their answer would be a resounding 'no', surely?

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Wingguy replied to ShutTheFrontDawes | 1 year ago
2 likes

ShutTheFrontDawes wrote:

I know that Armstrong has a serious victim complex, but he's not naive or stupid enough to think that his fellow competitors think he deserves mercy or forgiveness. I think he feels that he does deserve forgiveness, but he knows that he does not have it. He knows that if his fellow competitors were polled, their answer would be a resounding 'no', surely?

Yes he is. He absolutely, 100% is. And in terms of the people he's thinking of (GT contenders and podium finishers) he is right. They were ALL part of the same world and like him don't see what they were doing as cheating, but ensuring they were on the level playing field with everyone else. 

Come on, you can't be naive enough to think that Armstrong isn't saying the answer would be 'yes'.

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ShutTheFrontDawes replied to Wingguy | 1 year ago
0 likes

The point that I took away from many interviews and documentaries such as 'Stop at Nothing', is that his competitors (including some within USPS) saw him as a ring leader and architect of doping and hated him for it.

I don't believe that if you asked all those competitors "should LA have his TdF wins re-installed?", That the answer would be "yes". Perhaps the answer would be "we should all have our standings re-instated", but I would have thought that if LA had his wins reinstated, there would be many vocal detractors.

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Wingguy replied to ShutTheFrontDawes | 1 year ago
0 likes

ShutTheFrontDawes wrote:

I don't believe that if you asked all those competitors "should LA have his TdF wins re-installed?", That the answer would be "yes".

But you're not LA, so what you think their answer would actually be is irrelevant. LA is saying that the answer would be yes.

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ShutTheFrontDawes replied to Wingguy | 1 year ago
0 likes
Wingguy wrote:

ShutTheFrontDawes wrote:

I don't believe that if you asked all those competitors "should LA have his TdF wins re-installed?", That the answer would be "yes".

But you're not LA, so what you think their answer would actually be is irrelevant. LA is saying that the answer would be yes.

That's what you think. Not what he thinks. He didn't say in his tweet what he thinks.

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Rendel Harris replied to ShutTheFrontDawes | 1 year ago
2 likes

ShutTheFrontDawes wrote:

I assumed that the answer to Armstrong's seemingly rhetorical question was "no". Am I missing something? Are there fellow racers who think he should have them reinstated?

He claims – and unusually for him I should imagine he is telling the truth – that plenty of riders of his era would say that everyone was cheating and he was still the best of all of them, people were cheating in other eras and still have their titles and so should he. A few years back a newspaper asked all twenty-five living Tour de France champions if he should be allowed to keep his titles, four declined to comment, two had no opinion, twelve said he should and seven said he shouldn't. Of those who think he should be given the titles back the main arguments are that there are plenty of historic champions that we either know or are pretty certain were doping who still have their titles and that it looks silly trying to change history by saying that nobody won the Tour de France for seven years.

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Legin | 1 year ago
3 likes

The challenge I have with the way Armstrong was treated is it differs so greatly to how other cheats have been accepted and even lauded as role models, despite their misdemeanours.

It leaves me wondering if it's a case of nobbling the "mouthy Texan" while letting the sophisticated Europeans atone for their sins. After all there was no doping before Armstrong.

Or is it that we all like the underdog and cheating your way to second and third on the podiums of the major tours is okay because you didn't win? Cheating and winning is a sin! Cheating and losing...... that was you just trying to keep up with the arms race of that day; you can't be blamed for that!

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Rendel Harris replied to Legin | 1 year ago
4 likes

Personally I'd be more than happy for all convicted dopers to be banned from any association with the sport for life, including being denied journalism credentials et cetera. However, there are two things that make Armstrong a special case: firstly, nobody else (to my knowledge) threatened, bullied and intimidated anyone who questioned his honesty in the same way that Armstrong did, and secondly most others have expressed at least some level of contrition whereas Armstrong, as today's comments demonstrate, still appears to pretty much believe he didn't do much wrong and has been unfairly treated.

Maybe there was an element of "nobbling the mouthy Texan", I don't know; from a personal point of view I was a massive fan and vociferously defended him, giving him the benefit of the doubt until it became absolutely impossible.

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