Gilets Jaunes – Paris tells cyclists to don reflective gear as clocks go back

Fat lot of use it did me with 300 lumens of flashing light visible from a good 50metres away and I still almost became a bonnet ornament on a police car,that pulled out on me at a roundabout, both had to use our brakes to avoid a collision.

However, this wisdom sharing is a two way street.

That last one is a classic - it has been well-known that visibility is a problem in HGVs, but it is also a solvable problem, yet the solution is for others to keep out the way. My run ins with HGVs have never been caused by me riding up alongside from behind, and the sweary lorry drivers make it quite clear they believe that I am the problem for wanting to be on the same road as them. I wonder what percentage of fatalities with lorries can be attributed to cyclists positioning themselves in blind spots, as opposed to lorries positioning cyclists in their blind spots?

It's just one in along list of well known road problems that can be resolved but a Martin73 level of attrition is considered acceptable, with the various lobbies shouting it's everyone's problem but the operators' and bemoaning the cost of all this woke, tofu-eating, anti-growth H & S nonsense.

Where are the police going around to truck stops, parking bikes next to lorries to show just how dangerous it is for lorries to pull up alongside bikes?

The reality is that although hi-viz undoubtedly helps, as I drive along I bemoan poorly dressed ninja cyclists that I see... which is the point really, pretending it is acceptable not to see visible objects because then you would need to observe your surroundings carefully.

So you are right, these demos are useful to help people understand the problem and protect themselves, but it works against solving the problems as it normalises and accepts the problem.

IanMSpencer wrote:

... it has been well-known that visibility is a problem in HGVs, but it is also a solvable problem, yet the solution is for others to keep out the way. My run ins with HGVs have never been caused by me riding up alongside from behind,

Whenever I've found myself in the "blind spot" of an HGV, it is because I've been badly overtaken by said HGV driver or they have pulled alongside me on the approach to traffic lights.

I'm not sure that it's my fault, if they have put me in the "blind spot"...

BIRMINGHAMisaDUMP wrote:

It's one small stall in one big city as part of an awareness campaign. I never understand why (some) people who cycle get so agitated by this. Yes we know about who is really the danger etc but there is no harm in pointing out to people that hi viz makes them more visible. I used to work alongside the Police on Exchanging Places when the police would stop cyclists and ask them to sit inside an HGV cab. No one was suggesting the cyclist was at fault or victim blaming. It was just to make them aware of how restricted a HGV driver's vision is and how dangerous it is pull up alongside a HGV. Perhaps that's all that is going on here - a little bit of awarness assistance. 

did the police also get the HGV drivers to ride around on bicycles so they could see how scary a HGV cutting you up is?

Well... actually they *were* getting mown down in large numbers, and people were getting quite unhappy about it.  How could car companies manage this bad PR?  Step forward a brand new concept - "jaywalking"!

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2022-06-10/how-cities-responded-...

The WW2 blackout certainly had an effect on road safety:

Quote:

Moreover, road accidents increased dramatically, with 1,130 deaths in September 1939 as opposed to 544 in the same month the previous year.

I think a lot of our road "safety" has come from two factors: a) getting the pedestrians and cyclists off the roads and b) making crashes more survivable for car occupants.

I was just reading about an incident that took place in the village I grew up in.

During the blackout restrictions the kerbs were painted white at the junction in the square. An individual mistook this for the centre line, mounted the pavement and injured 18 pedestrians who were making their way home from the handful of pubs that had just closed. 

There was a time they could do so, it just didn't involve cars. Now we can be lit up, reflective and the size of a house and drivers still find new and imaginative ways to try and kill us, including at home, in bed.

Apologies - I see where you were aiming now.  I believe I did once suggest the abandonment of any technology requiring smelting and above.  However I don't live in a climate conducive to growing my own bicycle* so I'm running with assumptions such as "there will still be *some* motor vehicles".

* That's a lightweight, low-friction one - I'm aware it can be done otherwise.  Bamboo with lignum vitae bushings / bearings might work but don't grow well near me.

No apologies required and you are right to highlight that the danger of cars goes back to the cunning invention of the red flag as the original adaptive cruise control.

I think you'll find you're wrong, Martin73

Of course! He's always wrong

Thanks for the reportage!  I was assuming Paris was getting props simply because it's an example of a pretty big city not previously known as a cycling mecca making a change.  Any change like that - especially where the car was previously king- will get attention.

I'm only aware of a few sources with much detail though e.g. this video from NotJustBikes.

For "great" you probably want a few places in the south of Scandinavia or The Netherlands for the gold standard - NotJustBikes has done a compare and contrast there also. (As have Bicycledutch and many others).

France certainly has some kind of (weekend) recreational cycling culture but given it's mostly very rural my few times cycling there have featured the "cars on country roads" experience.

Some friends have just done a North South coast to coast, and they said any suggestion that the French were courteous to cyclists was disproven by experience.

Have just been in Paris. No children and elderly people on bikes, the tell-tale sign of a traffic environment that doesn't feel safe.

I think the reason that Paris gets good cycling press coverage is that they're making some bold moves to switch people away from cars and onto bikes/scooters/feet.

I've always wondered where it is in France people are cycling when they talk about motorists being so cyclist 'friendly'.  I spend 6 to 8 months of the year in French Pyrenees, and cycle every other day. I agree with 'Flying Penguin' when he/she talks about not (quite) as 'aggresive', though I have had things thrown at me. They make just as many close passes and overtake in dangerous situations as their British counterparts. I also sometimes wonder if most have had their indicators disconnected.

It's a long time since I've been there, but I do remember the entertainment of sitting at a Riverside bar watching cars driving on wet cobbles and slamming into each other as they discovered they couldn't stop for the traffic lights.