Airline pilots’ union “aghast” and “furious” at £2bn cycling and walking spend

Nick T wrote:

Better start flying to work from now on folks

You mean you don't?  Pleb...

ktache wrote:

They will do better than the cruise lines.

I wish I had shares in a "breaking unwanted cruise liners down into recyclable parts" company...  

I hope when this situation gets back to some sort of normality then people do rethink about the journeys they make. When we are encouraged to turn our backs on fossil fuels but still get a subsidy on air travel seems totally inappropriate.I think we can all agree that pollution and congestion from vehicles is a major issue but will we change our habits voluntarily or will it need stronger Government intervention to reduce the contamination. Would any Government actually have balls to take on the airline industry or vehicle manufacturers. I think not. Should we expect the freedom to travel,cheaply,whenever and where we like. It is going to be very hard to turn back this tide of entitlement of vehicle ownership.

Secret_squirrel wrote:

Bear in mind BALPA is close to the complete opposite of normal unions.  Instead of defending their members against low pay, poor conditions, and evil employers they pretty much exist to allow a load of overpaid plane drivers maintain their 5-6 figure salaries, short working hours and gold plated working conditions.

Compared to most of the rest of the Airline and travel industry in general they are in clover.

BALPA has a history of gobby denials of their privileged status - this is no different.

They can FOAD.

You've just reminded me that Norman Tebbit was a BALPA rep, which explains a lot.

Secret_squirrel wrote:

Bear in mind BALPA is close to the complete opposite of normal unions.  Instead of defending their members against low pay, poor conditions, and evil employers they pretty much exist to allow a load of overpaid plane drivers maintain their 5-6 figure salaries, short working hours and gold plated working conditions.

Compared to most of the rest of the Airline and travel industry in general they are in clover.

BALPA has a history of gobby denials of their privileged status - this is no different.

They can FOAD.

Being on the other side of the world, I'll refrain from commenting on the actual situation, as I don't know enough to make comment. However I find your comment about salary irrational, ignorant and offensive. Pay is generally commensurate with responsibility. I have no issues justifying my salary as pilot. It's no doctor or surgeons salary and nor should it be. But I know when I go to work for an 11 hour night flight across an ocean riddled with thunderstorms, that the people behind me are putting their trust in the flight crew to get them safely to the destination. We can't press backspace when we make an error. 
 

All the best to everyone affected by this unprecedented virus. Enjoy riding bikes, that's what we are here for. Quit the hate. 

biker phil wrote:

If a few airlines go bust, so what? It may sound harsh, but hear me out. For years, the aviation industry has gone mad. People fly to another country....for a meeting? You could get a return flight to Geneva for 30 quid? Everyone can see how clear the skies have been recently, and I don't think that it is merely coincidence that the weather has been settled since lockdown began. No, the fact that around 2 million planes fly around each day must be doing some considerable damage to the skies. Everyone reading this forum is a cyclist, right? So you have all noticed how clean and fresh the air has been recently? Yeah, I know, there's less traffic on the road, but almost just as much heavy traffic moving around, as most industries have continued to work. I don't believe that the clean air is just from the lack of cars on the road, as almost every car bar a small amount, are fairly new, and very clean regarding emissions. A smaller air industry has to be better than flights going up all day long, throughout the world. And let us not forget, if we didn't have flights covering the globe many times a day, and millions of people moving unchecked across continents, the Coronavirus wouldn't have spread like it did. The only negatives I can see, are some redundancies, and more expensive air travel and holidays. But a foreign holiday should be something we save up for, look forward to, and enjoy as a fantastic treat. Not something we should be going on 3 or 4 times a year, and just booking on a whim. We are all in charge of our own destiny, and if the Coronavirus has taught us anything, it must be to change our ways, stop moving all across the globe willy nilly and think of the environment. Nature is amazing, just look how it has repaired some of the damage we have inflicted on our world over the years, in just a few weeks. Here endeth my sermon. Amen.

what a load of BS. I live in London the air is no different . Planes tend to fly very high . I have not noticed them spewing  a load of black soot etc etc . Infact when the are flying around 37000 feet they don't use much fuel .

The Sky is clear because it's nice and bright and sunny . Only the  other day it was very cloudy and grey .  It called the weather  changing . I'd grant you that in some city's like Naples for instance they have a lot of environmental pollution and I am all for cleaning up the air and getting the chemicals out of the rivers and sea that  get dumped by the same companies who are telling you they want you to pay carbon tax .  They pay the tax and carry on polluting . Sorry we will,pay the tax they will have to charge us .  If we didn't have  flights the no one would ever get ill . Flu for instance has killed 33.000 people in the UK this year . I blame flying  ha ha .. My dad passed away from cancer I blame flying . So lets stay locked down so we can all enjoy that lovely weather looking out of our window 😃Why shouldn't me or anyone else be able to fly as  many times as we want . So the rich we still be able to fly but some poor nurse or hospital porter can only fly once a year.  Corona virus has taught you nothing . It's been a scaremongering  agenda from day 1 . Go look at the data if your under 65 years old you have more chance getting killed in a car crash . People are dying with the virus not because of the virus and they are trying to get those numbers up look at this https://week.com/2020/04/20/idph-director-explains-how-covid-deaths-are-...

so,,if you looked at the link you can see how they are trying,to get the numbers up. Even in the uk they a recording covid deaths with out any test being done just assumptions. In the states it's now become a joke, die in a car crash test for covid and it's a covid death. The BBC seem to be emitting this news . 
I have been to,Nice ,Barcelona ,lucca , Seville, trieste, in the last 2 years and it's been fantastic . It's a big world and it should be accessible to all of us . You want to expand your mind , travel  is the best way. People are great and I want to meet more of them from all,over the world.  Climate change ,. Funny how bill gates just bought a house right on the sea front .....it's all BS.

Well you're an angry individual aren't you? The air in london is no different because its a shithole. Once a shithole, always a shithole. Up here in Lancashire, ( You know, where we put flat caps on whippets and dance round the chimneys), the air has been a refreshing change. You can taste the fresh air, ask anyone up here. We are fairly rural too, not gridlocked like your beloved London. I can cycle up to the West Pennine moors after work, it is so clear I can see the Welsh mountains, the whole of the Lake District and the Isle of Man, crystal clear, why? Because there's no pollution.

Climate change bullshit. Really? 

How much fuel does a plane use to climb to 37000ft? Or do they float up?

The sky is clear because it's nice and sunny? Jesus, are you thick? Why do you think it is nice and sunny? Nothing to do with the huge decrease in pollution? What damage do you think we are doing to the atmosphere firing jet engines up all day? Look into the sky here and it isn't criss-crossed with vapour trails. You carry on living the dream in smoky London sonny, with planes fucking the sky up. Meanwhile people with brains prefer it this way.

You shouldn't be allowed to fly as much as you want, because it is fucking selfish. So are you a typical Leftie luvvie Londoner? Fuck everyone else, I'm alright. So you've flown many times. Big deal. What about the damage your flights have done to the world? You won't give a fuck about that, would you?

People like you are the reason this planet is so fucked up. Self, self, self.

London is not a 'shithole'. Otherwise I agree with you. Unfortunately the only way you can effect change is to make personal choices at the moment. Like cycling to the shops instead of driving or walking with the kids to school.  The places Xena mentions in his / her reply; Nice, Barcelona, Lucca . . . .  Can all be reached from London by train for example. 

I fly very rarely because it pollutes and because it is grim. Last year I managed to get to Sofia, Rome, Stuttgart, Lake Constance, Geneva, the Italian Alps without using a plane. It takes a little longer but it beats the herding that is the airport experience. The budget airlines especially have a stranglehold over travel as they make alternatives seem expensive and inefficient. 

Maybe I may have been a little harsh, apologies if I have offended you. I have only been to London a handful of times, a few times on business, I couldn't wait to get back on the train home, and the tube was a bloody nightmare. The only other time was to attend a concert at Wembley arena, now the roads leading to the arena were a shithole, but that was around 1994. I have never been as a visitor, maybe I should. 

We fly very rarely, usually once every two to three years to Switzerland with Swiss Air. The flight is usually OK but I hate the thought of what we are contributing to climate change and we also hate going through the cattle gates at the airports so much that we have been talking about making the trip by rail next time.

biker phil wrote:

 

 

You shouldn't be allowed to fly as much as you want, because it is fucking selfish. So are you a typical Leftie luvvie Londoner? Fuck everyone else, I'm alright. So you've flown many times.

Phil, I'm not sure you understand what Leftie luvvie Londoners stand for as you have described the complete opposite.  I'd say they are probably more right-wing than the typical Daily Mail reader.   Other than that, I'm 100% in agreement with you.

It was tongue in cheek Harragan, I always refer to the people who plough on regardless with a fuck everyone else attitude, those who tell people what to do but don't do it themselves, as leftie luvvies.

Flu killed 33000 this year? Would love to know where you got these figures from as that is what America pretty much reported last year. Yes America which currently has 82000 reported deaths from CV, but of course, most of those died in a car crash or were shot or something. And Public health England don't publish annual Mortality from Flu deaths but it was actually estimated 17000 anually for the last 6 years with an all time low in 2019 of 1700 or so. (highest was back in 2014/15 with 28K)

But let us take your 33k as actually being right for the UK. Officially CV has killed upto that figure already in 2-3 months. However if you look at ONS deaths over the time period it has been around and compare to any other year for the same period, the difference in deaths is actually massivley higher so most must be attributed to the impact of CV (Although I'm guessing the suicide rate might also be higher although not many reports of these yet, I don't think it would still be a small amount). You are blithering that the figures are artificially high when actually most people believe the UK is lowballing. 

Maybe read this and then tell Rory Kinnear that is sisters death is because she died of something else.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/may/12/rory-kinnearsister...

So you basically denying that air travel is incredibly damaging for the environment! Your "I'm all right jack" attitude is wanted over on the Daily Mail forums. Trump fanboy!

Xena wrote:

biker phil wrote:

If a few airlines go bust, so what? It may sound harsh, but hear me out. For years, the aviation industry has gone mad. People fly to another country....for a meeting? You could get a return flight to Geneva for 30 quid? Everyone can see how clear the skies have been recently, and I don't think that it is merely coincidence that the weather has been settled since lockdown began. No, the fact that around 2 million planes fly around each day must be doing some considerable damage to the skies. Everyone reading this forum is a cyclist, right? So you have all noticed how clean and fresh the air has been recently? Yeah, I know, there's less traffic on the road, but almost just as much heavy traffic moving around, as most industries have continued to work. I don't believe that the clean air is just from the lack of cars on the road, as almost every car bar a small amount, are fairly new, and very clean regarding emissions. A smaller air industry has to be better than flights going up all day long, throughout the world. And let us not forget, if we didn't have flights covering the globe many times a day, and millions of people moving unchecked across continents, the Coronavirus wouldn't have spread like it did. The only negatives I can see, are some redundancies, and more expensive air travel and holidays. But a foreign holiday should be something we save up for, look forward to, and enjoy as a fantastic treat. Not something we should be going on 3 or 4 times a year, and just booking on a whim. We are all in charge of our own destiny, and if the Coronavirus has taught us anything, it must be to change our ways, stop moving all across the globe willy nilly and think of the environment. Nature is amazing, just look how it has repaired some of the damage we have inflicted on our world over the years, in just a few weeks. Here endeth my sermon. Amen.

what a load of BS. I live in London the air is no different . Planes tend to fly very high . I have not noticed them spewing  a load of black soot etc etc . Infact when the are flying around 37000 feet they don't use much fuel .

The Sky is clear because it's nice and bright and sunny . Only the  other day it was very cloudy and grey .  It called the weather  changing . I'd grant you that in some city's like Naples for instance they have a lot of environmental pollution and I am all for cleaning up the air and getting the chemicals out of the rivers and sea that  get dumped by the same companies who are telling you they want you to pay carbon tax .  They pay the tax and carry on polluting . Sorry we will,pay the tax they will have to charge us .  If we didn't have  flights the no one would ever get ill . Flu for instance has killed 33.000 people in the UK this year . I blame flying  ha ha .. My dad passed away from cancer I blame flying . So lets stay locked down so we can all enjoy that lovely weather looking out of our window 😃Why shouldn't me or anyone else be able to fly as  many times as we want . So the rich we still be able to fly but some poor nurse or hospital porter can only fly once a year.  Corona virus has taught you nothing . It's been a scaremongering  agenda from day 1 . Go look at the data if your under 65 years old you have more chance getting killed in a car crash . People are dying with the virus not because of the virus and they are trying to get those numbers up look at this https://week.com/2020/04/20/idph-director-explains-how-covid-deaths-are-...

so,,if you looked at the link you can see how they are trying,to get the numbers up. Even in the uk they a recording covid deaths with out any test being done just assumptions. In the states it's now become a joke, die in a car crash test for covid and it's a covid death. The BBC seem to be emitting this news . 
I have been to,Nice ,Barcelona ,lucca , Seville, trieste, in the last 2 years and it's been fantastic . It's a big world and it should be accessible to all of us . You want to expand your mind , travel  is the best way. People are great and I want to meet more of them from all,over the world.  Climate change ,. Funny how bill gates just bought a house right on the sea front .....it's all BS.

 

Xena, I live in the countryside approximately 800 yards from an aircraft Radio Direction Beacon and directly under the flightpath of a regional airport, the change in night time sky since airlines were grounded is incredible.Please remember that London is a city not a country.

PS Do a bit of research and you will find that London air pollution was on the increase to near pre Air Pollution Act levels because of all the hipsters buying woodburners.

Gus, you're right. The clarity of the stars is incredible without the smog of pollution.

Best comment on this website that I've read in weeks, biker phil. The sooner more people wake up and realise that the COVID-19 crisis represents the best chance for us to hit a massive reset button and get our lives, habits, political choices and planet back on track for some form of better future in which we all live, the better the world will become. How we get them to see this is another matter altogether.

Thanks. This is the best chance in everyone's lifetime to as you say, push the reset button. I was talking to someone the other day who's take on it is that someone up above has watched us kill and maim millions in wars, overpopulate the planet, devastate nature, and pollute the planet to the point of almost killing it, and decided to teach us a lesson, and force us to stop, think what we are doing and change our ways before it is too late. Whether you believe in the Almighty is neither here nor there, but it makes you think?

Evolution always finds a way.

biker phil wrote:

Evolution always finds a way.

I liked that film

Great 'sermon'.  Couldn't agree more!

Xena wrote:

People need isolation masks gloves .,don't even breathe or you could die ( well only if your over 65 and have pre conditions  " don't mention that" ) 

The below table was created for the HSJ after analysing NHS worker COVID deaths upto mid April. So average age was 54, youngest was 21 and the most affected were aged between 48 and 63. I;m assuming they all must have had underlying conditions, or your right wing conspiracy sites will have some other reason for this? After all they don't seem to meet your conditions you aren't mentioning in your post.

Age

Median (IQR, [range])      54 (48-63 [21-84])      

<30                                            7

31-50                                        23

51-60                                        34

61-70                                        17

>70                                            8

Unknown                                 17

What is going on with your punctuation BTW? I'm imagining you angrily banging your keyboard with your forehead and this shit is getting spewed out.