Video: Richmond Park driver intimidates female cyclist by beeping horn before overtake

Rendel Harris wrote:

I've asked Royal Parks why they decided to go with the inflammatory "He then left the scene" rather than the true "He informed the proper authorities." 

That is pretty duplicitous of them. From what you are saying they only found the fawn because they had been informed by the cyclist, so there is no element of mis-timing here. It is difficult to put an innocent construction on their twitter output. "...left the scene" is a knowingly loaded phrase.

There was also this:
https://twitter.com/MPSRoyal_Parks/status/1404086783755931653?s=20
With regards to the collision on Broomfield Hill yesterday, following the incident the cyclist left #RichmondPark and contacted @theroyalparks call centre to report the matter. We encourage park users to contact park staff ASAP so they can assist injured wildlife if possible.

Truffl3Shuffl3 wrote:

Let's be honest, the only vehicles on the road that need to warn you of their presence are emergency vehicles. Horns have fuck all practical use for anyone else.

Quite, and when sirens are deployed it's rarely when they are right be-f*cking-hind you. You (usually) know they're coming for miles

I can think of very few occasions in nearly 40 years of driving. Once when the driver of the vehicle in front at traffic lights put it into reverse and once on the M25 where vehicle in the slip lane looked like it was going to merge into the side of my car and due to not being in the right place I had no real option to slow or change lane.

Other than that just the normal hooting and waving at friends in the street.*

*That last bit isn't true, but there are plenty of drivers who think that is a correct use.

rate driver -hg09foj              

ive done almost the same thing youve described when filtering past stationary traffic, i point left and yell SINGLE FILE! or ''use the bus service i paid for!''

if motorists are allowed to yell about bike lanes at cyclists for slowing them down, then it works the other way around. 

Jenova20 wrote:

Hitting a deer must hurt...I hit a person once, and that wasn't a pleasant experience. Some teenager ran from a bus shelter without looking, and right in front of me. I didn't have time to brake, and he got up and ran off after, while i was still lying in the road...Little shit.

Clearly less than true, otherwise the media reports would have been deafening.*

*May contain multiple buckets of irony.

Cyclists aren't allowed to share the road. We don't pay road tax so aren't allowed on them.

I came here to make the same comment Bill.  Glad to find I'm not alone in being reasonable.

Storris wrote:

..... Glad to find I'm not alone in being reasonable.

Bill McLaren wrote:

You do realise that the only time it is legal to use a horn in a car is to warn other road users of your presence i.e. the same as a bell on a bike. The correct headline here is:

Richmond Park driver warns female cyclist they are about to overtake by beeping horn. 

Now if the motorist is doing a close pass and basically being a prick, that is different. 

I suggest motorist and cyclist alike go read a rather good article about horn use:  https://www.iam-bristol.org.uk/index.php/articles/associate-s-guide/33-horn

Thanks for the link.

I don't really agree with the author's use of a horn to attempt to overtake two abreast cyclists as most of the time if it's unsafe to overtake two abreast, it's also unsafe to overtake two in-line cyclists (does depend on the specific situation, though).

It'd be great if more motorists did use their horns appropriately as I've gotten so used to motorists behind me using them as a means of expressing displeasure and often following up with a close-pass that I think I've got some mild PTSD from car horns.

hawkinspeter wrote:

.....

Thanks for the link.

I don't really agree with the author's use of a horn to attempt to overtake two abreast cyclists as most of the time if it's unsafe to overtake two abreast, it's also unsafe to overtake two in-line cyclists (does depend on the specific situation, though).

It'd be great if more motorists did use their horns appropriately as I've gotten so used to motorists behind me using them as a means of expressing displeasure and often following up with a close-pass that I think I've got some mild PTSD from car horns.

Jesus HFC!! is that really from an advanced motorist???

The first paragraph read like Clarkson on bad acid.....

Why would a driver need to "warn" a cyclist (or any other road user) of their presence in this situation? Both were going along the same road in the same direction. Unless the driver was intent on creating one then there was no hazard to the cyclist, the driver, nor anyone else.

The horn is not permission to create a hazard (well, I warned them by sounding my horn, but since they still didn't get out of my way I was forced to.... what, endanger them?)

Slight aside - years ago, a somewhat timid friend of mine was learning to drive. At a right turn junction (lights, but no actual filter), she was a bit hesitant, and then stalled, resulting in the idiot behind "warning" her of his presence - as if she was not aware already.

Right, said her instructor, I now want you to stall three more times. Just leave the handbrake on!

Sriracha is right - there was nothing to warn about unless the driver was intending to make the situation dangerous. A more extreme example I experienced (and submitted on NMOTD and to Sussex Police a couple of months back): https://youtu.be/XkAbPo4PLGU

Appropriate use would be if someone was about to drive into you, or crash into a pedestrian or whatever, in order to give them an opportunity to avoid an accident.

Sriracha wrote:

Why would a driver need to "warn" a cyclist (or any other road user) of their presence in this situation? Both were going along the same road in the same direction. Unless the driver was intent on creating one then there was no hazard to the cyclist, the driver, nor anyone else. The horn is not permission to create a hazard (well, I warned them by sounding my horn, but since they still didn't get out of my way I was forced to.... what, endanger them?)

I interpreted the article's horn use as a polite request for the cyclists to cycle in-line rather than two abreast.

Just as with using a bicycle bell, for a friendly signal of your approach, best used whilst approaching, not when you are on their shoulder already. I find cycling right up close before ringing my bell tends to startle people, and does not produce the desired result. Do the same with a car horn and people can jump out of their skins - not good if you a cyclist and it is a car on your tail. Anyway, I didn't see two abreast here, just a single cyclist.
Edit - just realised we are probably talking about different events?

Agreed - I'm more likely to use my bell from a distance (which doesn't work as it's not very loud) and use an "excuse me" close up if my freewheel doesn't get a response.

Sriracha wrote:

Just as with using a bicycle bell, for a friendly signal of your approach, best used whilst approaching, not when you are on their shoulder already. I find cycling right up close before ringing my bell tends to startle people, and does not produce the desired result. Do the same with a car horn and people can jump out of their skins - not good if you a cyclist and it is a car on your tail. Anyway, I didn't see two abreast here, just a single cyclist.

exactly this, driver approaching from behind on clear road, can see nothing coming and is going to pass give a quick bip (less than half a second) so cyclist is not startled by passing driver.

Leaning on the horn for 2 seconds while already right behind the cyclist and they can hear the car and the engine tone change as it begins an overtake gives no benefit.

wycombewheeler wrote:

.......

Leaning on the horn for 2 seconds while already right behind the cyclist and they can hear the car and the engine tone change as it begins an overtake gives no benefit.

Something of an understatement...

Sriracha wrote:

Just as with using a bicycle bell, for a friendly signal of your approach, best used whilst approaching, not when you are on their shoulder already. I find cycling right up close before ringing my bell tends to startle people, and does not produce the desired result. Do the same with a car horn and people can jump out of their skins - not good if you a cyclist and it is a car on your tail. Anyway, I didn't see two abreast here, just a single cyclist. Edit - just realised we are probably talking about different events?

I was referring to Bill McLaren's link and not the Richmond Park incident (which looks to be an incorrect usage of a car horn in my opinion) and I should probably have been more specific.

hawkinspeter wrote:

I interpreted the article's horn use as a polite request for the cyclists to cycle in-line rather than two abreast.

Which is inappropriate use of the horn.

The IAM article (in Bill's comment) is not very clear about the situation:

"two cyclists were riding 2 abreast towards the brow of a bridge. Unless they changed to tandem it would be impossible to overtake them safely".

This can be understood in many different ways. It could mean that the road, perhaps a single lane road, is wide enough for a safe overtake but the cyclists use more than half of it, and perhaps it's a small rural road with rarely any traffic and the cyclists are not aware of the car behind them, in which case it's fair to alert them and ask them them to make some space (and then overtake them slowly and carefully with enough space).

But mentioning the "brow" could also mean a blind summit so the driver does not want to change lanes as there might be cars coming the other direction. In that case they simply shouldn't overtake at all but wait. Without more details, we don't know and I find the example not good for a general text on road safety as people will read different things into it.

In the end, if it's not safe to overtake, then you mustn't, and that's a more fundamental and strict rule than anything about horn use.

There is nothing polite about using a horn. I've been told it's rude by motorists when I've used an AirZound to warn them not to reverse onto the roadway as I am riding past. A bell is polite but that cannot be heard from inside a car.

as such the only time a horn should be used is to warn against imminent collision, not to bully others out of your way because you think your time is more precious than their life.

Mostly the horn is used to draw attention to a driver who is engaged in the act of doing something stupid.

It would be more helpful, and one less thing to be concentrating on, if they could use the horn to warn other road users before they do something stupid.

Mungecrundle wrote:

Mostly the horn is used to draw attention to a driver who is engaged in the act of doing something stupid....

Nice