Top American gravel racer shot dead in Texas

I travel to the US regularly and I still find it shocking how easy it is to have access to firearms there.

Funny how the same politicians who are campaigning against reproductive choice in order to "defend life" will also campaign against gun control...  

brooksby wrote:

Funny how the same politicians who are campaigning against reproductive choice in order to "defend life" will also campaign against gun control...  

They often argue that adults have choices whereas a foetus has none – as if any of those poor souls killed at the weekend had a choice in the matter…

There's also a massive crossover between those who want to defend life and those who want to retain and increase the use of the death penalty.

Indeed.  I don't want to turn heel here but in order to understand people it's worth noting that from their perspective it is all logically consistent.  Assuming you grant their starting axioms.  We all have to start from something whether we acknowledge it or not.  Yes - many people will simply take the prevailing prejudices.  That's a human universal though.  These people are not even uniform in belief apart from the common (normally Abrahmic religion-derived) ideology which states that there is a further reckoning beyond death.  And also that there are other offenses which may rank above merely causing death e.g. that's not always an ultimate crime.

Some "liberal humanist" viewpoints may actually have more contradictions - not least because they trace their foundations back to the same religious ideas.  Likely many staunch pacifists / death penalty opponents operate some internal version of "self-defense is no offense" however unconsidered.

But yes - from an outsider perspective we could suggest their views are consistent with arming fetuses or that those participating in conception should be executed because they've condemned any resulting child to certain death...

chrisonatrike wrote:

But yes - from an outsider perspective we could suggest their views are consistent with arming fetuses or that those participating in conception should be executed because they've condemned any resulting child to certain death...

I suspect as well part of the problem is their not understanding what a foetus actually is...  There seem to be a lot of anti-choicers who think that a newly conceived foetus is just a teeny tiny baby (with arms and legs and a heart)...

You can't keep it in a box?

Best one was a few years ago when a Republican senator/congressman (not sure which) was interviewing a doctor at a committee meeting, about prescribing abortion pills by video call, and he asked whether they could get the woman/patient to swallow a camera so they could check on the foetus before prescribing...

He sounds like a mouth-breeder...

brooksby wrote:

Best one was a few years ago when a Republican senator/congressman (not sure which) was interviewing a doctor at a committee meeting, about prescribing abortion pills by video call, and he asked whether they could get the woman/patient to swallow a camera so they could check on the foetus before prescribing...

Well, that's just dumb. Everyone knows that pregnant women are "eating for two", so they'd obviously need to swallow two cameras.

Old but gold...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZrFVtmRXrw

Old but still disturbing (clips of people dying at end):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uOY6x_K8Ms

They're honest about it though. "Not enough people have guns" or "if only we could make sure more good guys had guns".

It's a false equivalence but I feel the same when I hear "we just need more training for drivers" or "if we could only get more policing of motorists".  Yes... but it's still a failure to understand humans and their limitations.  We (also) need the Health and Safety approach:  first remove the hazard...

chrisonatrike wrote:

They're honest about it though. "Not enough people have guns" or "if only we could make sure more good guys had guns".

It's a false equivalence but I feel the same when I hear "we just need more training for drivers" or "if we could only get more policing of motorists".  Yes... but it's still a failure to understand humans and their limitations.  We (also) need the Health and Safety approach:  first remove the hazard...

Don't try and discuss taking away access to firearms to any right wing American. It's just not worth the headache.

I wouldn't - any more than advising them on other ideological matters.  I might not agree with them on US foreign policy if they brought up the topic though - while acknowleging our own issues.  It's enough dealing with attitudes to transport here.