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Shoreham air crash pilot acquitted

by kil0ran
Fri, Mar 08, 2019 11:48
9

See - yet again juries fail to convict when vulnerable road users are killed by hunking great chunks of metal. Clearly they've been able to empathise - after all, we've all watched Top Gun.

 

If you're new please join in and if you have questions pop them below and the forum regulars will answer as best we can.

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9 comments

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Drinfinity | 5 years ago
1 like

I used to bike round Norfolk on holiday as a kid, and remember seeing Vulcans flying there. Truly awe inspiring, although I didn’t know at the time what their mission was.

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kil0ran replied to Drinfinity | 5 years ago
2 likes

Drinfinity wrote:

I used to bike round Norfolk on holiday as a kid, and remember seeing Vulcans flying there. Truly awe inspiring, although I didn’t know at the time what their mission was.

I remember going to Greenham mid-70s and there was a C5 Galaxy doing a low pass and the crowd line was seriously close to the runway. I remember my 5yo ears being utterly battered by Vulcans & Lightnings, like you say, an awe-inspiring experience. They almost didn't need to drop bombs those big V-bombers

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OldRidgeback replied to kil0ran | 5 years ago
0 likes

kil0ran wrote:

Drinfinity wrote:

I used to bike round Norfolk on holiday as a kid, and remember seeing Vulcans flying there. Truly awe inspiring, although I didn’t know at the time what their mission was.

I remember going to Greenham mid-70s and there was a C5 Galaxy doing a low pass and the crowd line was seriously close to the runway. I remember my 5yo ears being utterly battered by Vulcans & Lightnings, like you say, an awe-inspiring experience. They almost didn't need to drop bombs those big V-bombers

I used to go to a lot of aircraft shows as a kid and loved them. A few years ago I was at the Goodwood Festival of Speed and the Vulcan was making low passes over the area. I'd forgotten quite how noisy the Vulcan was. Those massive engines (similar to the ones on a Concorde) make your stomach revereberate. It looked like a giant paper dart, thundering through the sky. The Vulcan was a beautiful aeroplane and stunning to watch. I find modern aircraft a bit boring by comparison to the old British classics like the Vulcan and the Lightning.

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Drinfinity | 5 years ago
5 likes

An alternative reading is the pilot started the manoeuvre without sufficient separation between aircraft and ground, but went for it anyway despite being too slow, and continued to try to squeeze it out even after missing the top gate. Injury and death was caused to those unfortunate enough to have been in a zone that the aircraft was intend to be excluded from, and who did not have sufficient protection from the impact.

Not that dissimilar to a driver overtaking too close and then cutting in before a traffic island.

 

The very significant difference compare to road travel is that, by comparison, pilots and aviation are rightly regulated to the eyeballs, highly trained, assessed*, and incidents investigated thoroughly. The human factors, and the regulatory and environmental factors are given detailed consideration. The outcomes often create an airworthiness directive or other legal change that is acted on to prevent similar occurrences.

In our comparable road case, the driver would have been trained and tested 20 years ago with no assessment since, the vehicle wiped with an oily rag once a year, the human factors dismissed as momentary lapse, the cyclist blamed for not wearing a helmet, and no changes whatsoever to regulations on permitted road layout. 

 

*the aviation equivalent of Uber is now coming under scrutiny since an expensive passenger was tragically killed by a plumber and part time pilot.

 

 

 

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Canyon48 | 5 years ago
2 likes

I'm not sure how this is cycling related.

This is also a fairly bad comparison to use - flying an aerobatic display at low level in a high-performance aircraft is inherently incredibly dangerous (procedures and training are put in place to mitigate the risk).

If you read the full report, it's very apparent that a number of factors led to the crash;

the aircraft wasn't airworthy,

the training and procedures were insufficient,

the airshow organisers didn't have a sufficient safety management system,

due to workload, pilot error led to a manoeuvre being attempted with insufficient speed, height and power.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/58b9247740f0b67ec80000fc/...

Compare that to someone running over a pedestrian at a crossing because they were too busy looking at the radio whilst speeding to pick up their kids from school and there are some stark differences.

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hawkinspeter replied to Canyon48 | 5 years ago
1 like

Canyon48 wrote:

I'm not sure how this is cycling related.

This is also a fairly bad comparison to use - flying an aerobatic display at low level in a high-performance aircraft is inherently incredibly dangerous (procedures and training are put in place to mitigate the risk).

If you read the full report, it's very apparent that a number of factors led to the crash;

the aircraft wasn't airworthy,

the training and procedures were insufficient,

the airshow organisers didn't have a sufficient safety management system,

due to workload, pilot error led to a manoeuvre being attempted with insufficient speed, height and power.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/58b9247740f0b67ec80000fc/...

Compare that to someone running over a pedestrian at a crossing because they were too busy looking at the radio whilst speeding to pick up their kids from school and there are some stark differences.

Whoosh?

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ktache replied to Canyon48 | 5 years ago
2 likes

Canyon48 wrote:

I'm not sure how this is cycling related.

As far as I can tell 3 of the dead were on bicycles, or had cycled there to see the show.

 

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kil0ran replied to ktache | 5 years ago
5 likes

ktache wrote:

Canyon48 wrote:

I'm not sure how this is cycling related.

As far as I can tell 3 of the dead were on bicycles, or had cycled there to see the show.

 

 

Just after Shoreham I cycled to the Old Warden airshow for the final appearance of the Vulcan. Great thing about bikes is (a) you avoid traffic and (b) you can sneak into restricted areas and have a Cold War bomber batter you into the ground when the pilot sticks it on it's tail for a fast climb. Epic experience.

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Hirsute replied to Canyon48 | 5 years ago
1 like

Canyon48 wrote:

Compare that to someone running over a pedestrian at a crossing because they were too busy looking at the radio whilst speeding to pick up their kids from school and there are some stark differences.

Differences? - normally car drivers get off with a slapped wrist unless of course it involves another car in which case it is a wholly different set of judgements.

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