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Alternative for shimano crank?
Looking to replace my Ultegra 6800 crank/chainset on my S Works SL4. Replacing for 2 reasons.. going to 170 as it came with 172.5mm and all my other bikes are 170mm ,but also because I read more and more about breakages of these bonded cranks.
But what do I replace it with? I'd like to keep the 24mm bottom bracket as,so far,it isn't creaking like some do in these frames.
I've looked at Rotor,which do 24mm axles and do like the look and the fact I can go for oval rings... but they ain't cheap. Just thought I'd post to see if there are any other options.. or has anyone tried the new Shimano cranks.. have they sorted the problems?
If you're new please join in and if you have questions pop them below and the forum regulars will answer as best we can.
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45 comments
OP, I had the exact problem with the Ultegra 6800 cranks you are worried about. In my case, it wasn't a sudden failure, it gradually got worse. In fact, I knew there was a problem for a few months, but it wasn't obviously the cranks for a while, and I thought it was the bb or the rear wheel bearings until eventually the separation was visible whilst pedalling. One end became delaminated, but the other end was still attached.
This was 4 years ago, was a year outside the warranty, and although I had a bit of toing and froing with Shimano and Madison (the importer) they eventually replaced it, and it is still going strong.
From my experience, you don't have to rush into a swap, you have time to research and choose what works for you.
I was in the same mind as you and about 6 months back I changed my Ultegra 6800 crankset for a 105 crankset it had 39 53 chainrings i have since bought a 50 tooth chainring and now I running 50 39 at the front and an 11/28.cassette suits me. The 105 crankset cost me £116 which replaced the 172 to 170 crank lengths
New old stock Campag Potenza chainsets can be had for £150 to £170 online.
The cheaper ones seem to be PowerTorque rather than UltraTorque, but the later version, with a self-extracting bolt.
SL4 are BB30 so I guess you are on reducers?... Unless you've used a Wheels or Hambini etc to change to a 24mm?....Sram/FSA go 30mm cranks ,Rotor too .... before you check Shimano alternative cranks ... Check out what you really have. Pretty sure you are BB30....as all the Sworks SL's my customers have are ...
Shimano Ultegra 6800 came with the bike. ,so I'd guess its got the converter to 24mm. I would have preferred a 30mm SWorks chainset,but beggars can't be choosers and I got the bike for a good price.
I've done a few miles on the crank and nothing creaks,so I'm happy with the BB,but it seems the 172.5mm arms aren't for me. I have 170mm on my other bikes,which i was told to go for in the 80's for my height etc. Didn't expect the 2.5mm to make any difference, but my knees have been bad since. Then,when looking for crank prices I came across the reports of breakages..and when you delve further it just gets worse. Shimano replace the broken cranks,but not much use if you've crashed your bike when it breaks.. so I've lost confidence in them.A 170mm 6800 replacement might be fine,or it could break on a ride..I have no idea. If shimano had said they had a bad batch,or they can break under certain circumstances then I'd be fine with it.. but nope.. they say nothing and keep producing bonded cranks.. Hence looking for something else. Rotor were top due to being 24mm and the Q rings might help my knees. After that,its either down a groupset to 105 or (now I've been shown the 24-22 adaptor ) I could go for Sram Red..
Thanks for all the help and suggestions. It'll now be down to price and what I can pick up. Easiest/cheapest is to get the 105,but I'm trying to get the bike lighter,so that wouldn't be long term
Honestly I wouldn't compromise your choice of cranks for the sake of not changing your BB. That is a wearing part and will need replacing at some point. Find a crank you like (I would always recommend Campag UltraTorque) and get the appropriate BB to go with it.
One of my reasons for liking Campag is that the cups and bearings are separate so replacement bearings can be bought from any reputable (and I'm sure many disreputable) bearing suppliers. 2/3 of my bikes now run ceramic BB bearings which set me back about the same as 2 sets of Ultegra cups. 3rd bike will probably go ceramic once the steel ones wear out.
I have campag on another bike and would go Campag except I have shimano di2 on the S Works,so not sure about compatibility, and I've heard the bb is terrible for creaking in that frame.
I've run a Campy Ultratorque chainset on my Supersix Evo, which I think is Pressfit, for the last 5 years - no creaks, changes great with a Shimano front derailleur, its lasting well and looks great I think?
Can sometimes find them in end of year sales - bought mine for £185...
That looks very nice. I have Campag 10 speed on one of my other bikes and love the way it rides/changes, but this bike has di2,which i'm also impressed with... seamless changes,so you change more because you dont even notice you've changed. I've plumped for the Rotor chainset ,mainly because i got a great deal on a second hand one. It comes with Q rings,which i'll give a go if they'll help my knees.
Rotor 3D+ cranks are great. I have them in a 30mm spindle diameter to fit my Rotor T47 bottom bracket, but they do make them in a 24mm to fit a typical Shimano Hollowtech-II compatible bottom bracket. As with the Praxis cranks mentioned below, pretty sure you can also use direct-mount chainrings, a 5-tooth spider or a 4-tooth spider. I use a 5-tooth 110BCD spider, which very handily fits Praxis chainrings too so you're not splashing out.
Another plus - if subjective - they look fantastic, too!
Should that big chainring be installed so that the sliver pin that is sticking out is behind the crank arm? Or perhaps there isn't room with the Rotor/Praxis combinantion....
Good eye. The pin is a tiny bit too long indeed. Normally, I'd have ground it down a couple of mm but it was late, I had to readjust my front mech (going from 46 to 48T) and I sincerely couldn't be bothered. At least you are the only person who's ever noticed.
I like Praxis cranksets and they can be had in a ton of different options - spider, direct mounts, traditional chainrings - plus a few different axle options too, though I'm not sure if there's a version that would work with a shimano 24mm BB.
Pretty sure Praxis use irritatingly assymetric spindle diameters across their cranksets that only work with their own bottom brackets. (For instance, their 30mm spindle is, in fact, 30mm in diameter on one side and 28mm on the other!)
Yes that's correct. And they wear through the bearings in no time. I'm going to swap to Rotor, better engineered
I run Rotor 3D24, 165mm cranks on a Power2Max NG Eco spider and 52/36 Absolute Black chainrings. These replaced a 6800 setup. Aesthetically better looking than the Shimano, and stiffer. Also replaced the BB with a Token Ninja TF24 so no more creaky pressfit shizzle.
That does look very nice 👌
If I went for Rotor it'd be either the Aldhu or Vegast 24.. there's about £100 difference,but I'm struggling to find weights to see if its worth spending the extra... Unless I can find a 3D24 on ebay,as I've not seen any new ones anywhere.
If, as has been mentioned in other posts, the SL4 generally runs with a BB30 set up, then go for Rotor 30mm crank and change the BB to suit.
The problem with fitting a bottom bracket to suit a 24mm spindle is that you'd need adapters. But, if the bike is designed to work with a BB30 originally, and is then fitted with a 24mm crank (cost? availability? - with adaptors), it makes sense to go back to the BB30.
Token do numerous Ninja BBs to suit, they're not overly expensive, and once any pressfit (nuisance) has been removed, no more creaky BBs.
I have token BBs on 2 of 3 of my road bikes, and will certainly replace my 3rd bike BB with one when the time is due.
Ceramic bearings - I'm not overly sold on those either. The minute weight saving (for me) is not a consideration. Also some hybrid/ceramic bearings don't have as good a seal as the lower priced (well engineered) cartridge BB bearings.
There are also a myriad of chinese cranksets, that share design cues and manufacturing premises to the likes of Rotor...
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002718458736.html?spm=a2g0s.8937460....
105 chainset sure is the way to go. 39 grams difference between 105 and Ultegra that you'll never notice, and don't seem to suffer from the reported bonding problems. About £130-ish quid if you look around.
If weight is your priority, then you can't beat a SRAM red crankset. You can pick them up on eBay for a pretty good price, but you would have to change your bottom bracket.
I'm guessing you are lumbered with press-fit BB on a frame that is otherwise brilliant. Whoever tried to force press-fit onto the cycling world should take a walk, then walk a bit further, then keep walking until they reach the sea, then... I hate press-fit. Been there and would always avoid in the future. Shite!
SRAM red is a good shout but you will need a new BB (or convertor) as SRAM cranks are 24mm at one end and 22mm at the other.
SRAM RED is a good shout.. I've seen Tom Boonen using it on his SL4 (probably 10spd back then).. but I'd need to change my bb and I have no idea what I need.. the press fit world baffles me. I even read something about epoxying it into the frame.. so I agree with your comments on pressfit.
From all the comments so far it looks like 105 could be the way to go,which would be an easy fix to get the bike back out on the road.
I'd still like to know what people think of Rotor,as I was told the Q rings would help my knees..
Friend in club has Rotor and is very happy with it, including Q rings, though he was not entirely convinced what difference they made. His problem was keeping going in his late 80s.
You'd just need 1 of these (push it in to the none drive side (left) bearing) and a sram red gxp crankset - https://www.wychbearings.co.uk/gxp_adaptor_bush.html
Thanks for that link.. that'll be perfect if I go for Sram red. Need to look at prices,as that has widened my window. I had got it down to a 105,with Rotor as a possible depending on any comments.. which have all been good.
Don't forget that you can still use oval (rotor) chainrings with SRAM Red cranksets. SRAM Red is vastly superior to and far lighter than Shimano 105.
https://rotorbike.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/Q-RINGS-ROAD-cranks-com...
It's also more than twice the price - bit of an odd comparison, don't you think, given that Red is SRAM's top end, Dura Ace rival groupset? Ultegra is superior to SRAM Apex, doesn't mean much.
I meant a second hand SRAM Red. I stuck a second hand one on my old cross bike and it cost me less than a new 105. So it is a valid comparison: Lighter, stiffer, compatible crankset for less than a 105. Also the OP said weight was a priority.
You're dead right on prices. I do go used for the right price,but Sram RED new is still cheaper than some other options,like the Rotor i was looking at.. and lighter too. As i mentioned in another post tonight,i've found a cheap used 105 5800 crank that i can use my 6800 chainrings on as a stop-gap for this year.
This adaptor... is it pushed into the bearing from the outside,or do i need to remove the bearing and push it from the inside? If i need to start removing bearings i might as well get the correct bb for the gxp crankset... although this is something for next year as i've just bought a used 105 5800 crankset,which i can use with my Ultegra chainrings to add minimum weight. This is a temp solution so i can use the bike this year. Long term i'm looking at losing weight and the Sram RED looks to be the lightest option.
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