Amazon delivery 'bicycles'

Pictures in the press do seem to show mirrors. And you can see the driver/rider in the screen grab below. However they don't seem to stick out far, and as they are to be used on cycle paths I do wonder how much of a blind spot there is for someone on two wheels close behind it like the filming rider. 

You'd be following one of them for a while, wouldn't you?  Not easy to overtake...

brooksby wrote:

You'd be following one of them for a while, wouldn't you?  Not easy to overtake...

Just go onto the road if you want to overtake them. I do that for e-scooters in bike lanes as it avoids trying to do a close overtake just at the same time as they try to avoid a pothole.

Personally, I don't mind slower vehicles using segregated infrastructure, but I'm concerned that they have four wheels although they probably present less danger than motorbikes.

Are those things "e-vehicles" or is the Amazon person pedalling away like crazy?

brooksby wrote:

Are those things "e-vehicles" or is the Amazon person pedalling away like crazy?

Probably electrically powered. If they wanted to pedal it, then a cargo bike would be a better design. Incidentally, I'm seeing more electrically assisted cargo bikes around my neck of the woods recently - I wonder if that's got anything to do with the Clean Air Zone (started today).

brooksby wrote:

Are those things "e-vehicles" or is the Amazon person pedalling away like crazy?

EVs definitely, and from the ones I've seen in London the rider puts in very little effort, they are really just turning the pedals in a very low gear to activate the motor so that they stay within the law as pedelecs.

Then they shouldn't be using cycle lanes.

mattw wrote:

Technically they are E-bikes I think

They have 4 wheels and are shaped like a van. Just a small one that can be driven where a normal-sized van shouldn't be allowed.

Is the driver, er I mean 'cyclist' going to pull off the cyclepath when stopping to deliver or are they going to block the lane like every other shitty delivery driver (and the police)?

Looking at the above video, I'd not want to meet one while pootling along the infrastructure built specifically for cyclists.

It looks like we'll be seeing more of these lane-hogging behemoths too:

Today, Amazon announces the expansion of its UK e-cargo bike fleet, with the launch of three further micromobility delivery hubs in Manchester and London

https://www.aboutamazon.co.uk/news/sustainability/amazon-expands-electri...

(Will delivery companies prioritise considerate parking)

By nominative determinism (almost) I had a soft spot for the DHL recumbent four-wheelers (lower but longer IIRC).  Most folks seem to be more comfortable with upright though.  Maybe that offers form factor benefits too?

It being the UK when the time came Royal Mail went full petrol of course, combined with those wheely-trucks (when they weren't screwing their staff with the IT then in the courts...)  Here's what we could have won:

https://www.pushbikes.org.uk/file/deutsche-post-delivery-e-bike

mattw wrote:

I'm in several minds.

This has the usual UK feel of 'pushing the envelope beyond sensible', but OTOH Amazon walking the limits of the infra may help drive development (eg 2m wide cycle tracks at this junction).

The inability to signal is a real problem, and perhaps an offence.

It is about the same size as the invalid carriage micro-cars which are used in NL on cycle infra, but perhaps rather longer. But they work as the infracstructure is generallt adequate, whereas here even the best feels like dial-up internet when broadband had arrived.

I think it's overall a good thing. The more that motorists have to encounter different vehicles and styles of riding/driving, then hopefully their observation and attention will be improved. Also, there's the major advantage of not having someone driving a car or van to deliver packages - every little bit helps.

In London we have PedalmeApp which, though more standard looking cargo bikes, are often towing huge trailers. They don't generally use the cycle lane though, as they appreciate there isn;t really room for them. Their cyclists also go through rigourous training before they are allowed out on the road (not all pass). I do wonder if these drivers, sorry cyclists, have the same training (though I imagine they are likely lower paid).

Inability to signal?  Looks narrow enough to stick an arm out - but I still think it should have indicators (I'm quite happy for companies / businesses to jump through extra hoops that e.g. the general public don't).

TBH Amazon are pushing all kinds of limits, not least their full-size vans on double-yellows, pavements and other places where they're less than ideal.  Again if I was ruling the world I'd probably mandate that the healthy go and collected it themselves but here we all are;  so everyone got lucky there!

It could have been worse. Remember their drones option.

The UK invalid carriages should supposedly be set at 4mph when on pavements and 8mph on roads, the latter needs signals and road lights though to be able to do that. What would cycle lanes class as?

As Rendel mentions, I do wonder how legal they are. It seem they don't pedal a chain, but instead pedal by wire.

Quote:

Vok is propelled through electronic pedalling, which means that every pedal stroke is transferred to electrical current, then amped up by the onboard electronics and precisely tuned algorithms control the in-hub motors that propel the bike. There are far fewer moving parts compared to regular drivetrains, leading to low maintenance needs and a very long lifetime, especially compared to chain-driven cargo bikes that require drivetrain maintenance every 1000 km.

( i believe they are Vok "bikes". If they are not, they are the same design principles.)

Love it how folks trying to sell things all do the same stuff.  Your drive train is inefficient AND requires all kinds of exotic stuff?  But it uses "precisely tuned algorithms" and has "low maintenance needs".  Until some tiny connection breaks or a chip fails, then it's just some hard-or-impossible-to-recycle mixed waste.

(I think the defining feature of technology is "how can I avoid time spend in maintenance" - which largely ties in with the sales model of fast-growing businesses too.  Yes, I've finally got to "grumpy old man complaining that we never needed that in my day"...)

chrisonatrike wrote:

(I think the defining feature of technology is "how can I avoid time spend in maintenance" - which largely ties in with the sales model of fast-growing businesses too.  Yes, I've finally got to "grumpy old man complaining that we never needed that in my day"...)

Lots of people want to have low-or-no maintenance, I suppose.  But the lower the requirement for regular and frequent maintenance, the more likely it is that when it does need maintenance, you'll have to sell a kidney or be without it for six weeks while it goes to the one specialist who can fix it for you.

(Eben Weiss (Bikesnob NYC) had an article a couple of weeks ago, grumbling about how apparently some people now think that saying that "you need to know how to fix a flat tyre" is totally elitist and ought to be banned.)

AlsoSomniloquism wrote:

Vok is propelled through electronic pedalling, which means that every pedal stroke is transferred to electrical current, then amped up by the onboard electronics and precisely tuned algorithms control the in-hub motors that propel the bike. There are far fewer moving parts compared to regular drivetrains, leading to low maintenance needs and a very long lifetime, especially compared to chain-driven cargo bikes that require drivetrain maintenance every 1000 km.

Didn't know that - so they are effectively cocking a snook at the pedelec law which requires the rider to be putting something in, the pedals are effectively a  large throttle control. Mind you I'd be relaxed about throttle-control ebikes being allowed (provided they're kept to the legal 25kph), particularly since throttle-controlled escooters have become accepted by default it seems a bit pointless to insist on ebikes not having them.

AlsoSomniloquism wrote:

i believe they are Vok "bikes". If they are not, they are the same design principles.

No, they are made by EAV Solutions https://eav.solutions/

They are driven by a chain and/or a gates barbon belt iirc.

The Amazon vehicles look identical to those used by Zedify. https://www.zedify.co.uk Urb-It https://www.urb-it.com use trikes which are also pretty big – probably the same width – but do appear to be genuinely pedal powered (with e-assist, obvs) and not so tall or enclosed. Trikes rather than pedal-vans.

There isn't space for overtaking in the lanes on Trafford Road.  Unfortunately when they rebuilt the road (it's not quite finished) they added cycle capacity by removing the large central reservation.  The traffic lanes are the same.  It feeds a motorway junction so I think they probably made the right call.

Roaxanne...

First light in the video seemed to be full red for both the EV and the cyclist. 

AlsoSomniloquism wrote:

First light in the video seemed to be full red for both the EV and the cyclist. 

But was it an established red light?

Yes, they should have stopped with better reactions - and especially the filming cyclist behind should have!

They should bring that in for drivers too - they could usefully trial "amber means stop" near me in Edinburgh for example although it would be a bit of a shock.