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BBC - Oxford traffic reduction conspiracies and Wrong Said Fred

Some odd conspiracy-theorist campaigning against Oxford's proposed city traffic reduction system, says the Beeb:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-64223058

It seems the anti-traffic reduction folks are linking in with all the (now) expected conspiracies and "it's the state taking over".  Plus the normal style of wild claims which are trivially refuted.  However while deeply dippy they've got Right Said Fred onside apparently??

I'm sure this came up recently - maybe in live blog? - but couldn't find it.  There was a road.cc item on the LTNs from earlier last year:

https://road.cc/content/news/anti-ltn-protestors-stop-traffic-oxford-294833

If you're new please join in and if you have questions pop them below and the forum regulars will answer as best we can.

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18 comments

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AlsoSomniloquism | 1 year ago
3 likes

I'm pretty sure RSF, or at least the lead "singer" was a big covid denier /anti-vaxxer. Once you get into one conspiracy you normally get roped into loads of others.

​I was speaking to an ex-neighbour of my dads a few years ago. Somehow we started talking about The Beatles and I stated how my uncle was also a big fan but got peed off when McCartney just barged past fans waiting for autographs. That started him off that McCartney was replaced and he believed that as a kid as he could see he was a different fellow. Then about the moonlandings were faked because the "computers" on the spacecraft were so low spec. I think I made my excuses and left around then. 

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Rendel Harris replied to AlsoSomniloquism | 1 year ago
3 likes

AlsoSomniloquism wrote:

I'm pretty sure RSF, or at least the lead "singer" was a big covid denier /anti-vaxxer. Once you get into one conspiracy you normally get roped into loads of others.

Yep, both the Fairbrass brothers started off anti-mask and anti-lockdown, moved onto anti-vax and have gone on to anti-5G and some pretty dubious new world order theories. Also some pretty distasteful stuff about Gary Glitter's and Ian Watkins' music should still get airplay and be enjoyed even though they're convicted paedophiles...Deeply Dippy indeed.

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JustTryingToGet... | 1 year ago
3 likes

The anti-LTN brigade seem to be getting increasingly unhinged.

I always find it interesting how many people don't own a car in the areas where LTNs are proposed and how little their voice seems to matter in the discussions. It's very telling.

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wtjs replied to JustTryingToGetFromAtoB | 1 year ago
4 likes

The anti-LTN brigade seem to be getting increasingly unhinged

Once the hinges are completely off, it's difficult to become more unhinged

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Kapelmuur | 1 year ago
6 likes

There's a conspiracy obsessive in my family who says his objection to LTNs is because the planters that block the roads contain tanks full of virus that will be released to cause the next pandemic.

All very confusing when he used to declare the last one was a hoax.

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chrisonabike replied to Kapelmuur | 1 year ago
2 likes

Yeah - like theories at the forefront of quantum physics they're all bonkers on the face of them so it's hard to pick one which might be sttange but true, right?

Having spent some time with people who came from countries where authoritarian regimes had been in place for generations I have some more understanding of this mindset, I think. (In those countries - the rulers DO have it in for you, they ARE telling you the exact opposite of the truth or just cynically trying to confuse you).

I'm no psychologist but it seems that sometimes spotting a lie from those you formerly trusted (authorities, TV channels, rule models) can switch you to a parallel paranoid viewpoint where everything is suspect.

Humans apparently have an in-built heuristic of looking for confirmatory evidence (not collecting all evidence then evaluating). So this viewpoint is self- reinforcing. People lie or "spin" often and most other people don't have your exact interests as a priority. So once you're looking for conspiracies and deception you will certainly find it! Any obvious truths said by "them" are then just further evidence of bad faith - they're trying to fool me!

One of the comforting things about conspiracy thinking is it at least preserves the notion of purpose and meaning. To paraphrase Alan Moore - the reality is even more frightening - *there is no one in control* (not the lizards, the Illuminati or even the local council). The world is rudderless.

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chrisonabike replied to Kapelmuur | 1 year ago
2 likes

Your friend might be into something though - if you swap "tanks of virus" for "vehicles emitting particulates and other pollutants, moving rather slowly"...

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hawkinspeter | 1 year ago
3 likes

I don't follow how it's an international concern when they're complaining about plans for Oxford (which they aren't correct about anyway). The ony way I can see that it's international is if it's an environmental push-back by fossil fuel concerns - probably funded by the likes of Exxon https://thecompost.io/articles/exxonknew

What's really ironic is that there has been a massive conspiracy by oil companies to gaslight the public about climate change and refute climate science so that they can continue to make money before society collapses, yet we keep getting people that argue on the side of continuuing to design everything around cars and not figure out more sustainable ways that people can get around.

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chrisonabike replied to hawkinspeter | 1 year ago
1 like

But "they" are going to trap you, (presumably to better control / maybe tax you) by ... confining you to a certain mode of travel which only runs on dedicated infra and you'll have to pay "them" to get around ... oh.

I think "follow the money" is a pretty good rule of thumb. I reckon we don't need to worry too much about vehicle manufacturers or energy companies losing out to sinister councils any time soon.

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Kapelmuur replied to chrisonabike | 1 year ago
4 likes

'Being trapped' means 'I can't drive where I want to'.   Once a year the Manchester Marathon passes through Altrincham causing temporary road closures and dozens of complaints from people 'trapped' in their homes.

 

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David9694 | 1 year ago
1 like

Lastly for now, lovely Sherborne with its cycle-friendly railhead, and just one unclassified road in and out to the west. If you want to carry on east, another A road to tackle. It's only a short run to Oborne but it's a nasty narrow, steep turning and better to plough on to Milborne Port. 

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David9694 | 1 year ago
1 like

 A nice route up the Avon Valley from Amesbury (Salisbury as well) ends in a series of A roads before Upavon which you have to navigate, like if you want to carry on to say the rail head at Pewsey.  Unpleasant at best, unsafe a lot of the time, and would take a lot of mettle to attempt. You did this, drivers, this is on you. 

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David9694 | 1 year ago
3 likes

Drivers, if it's a Berlin Wall or deprivation of mobility rights you are after, then have a look at the attached map extract.

Between Cadnam and Ringwood, there is just one crossing point (a checkpoint if you like) for road cyclists going north-south. You can only make a left turn at Stoney Cross. Zero prospect of riding on the road itself, of course.  Sure, for off-roaders and walkers there are four underpasses on this stretch if you seek them out on the 1:25000 map.  This road effectively cuts the New Forest in two.

Every claim you make about your so-called frweedom I can show you ten or more cases where a major road makes navigating the countryside other than by car impossible, unsafe or only for the supremely brave. 
 

 

 

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chrisonabike replied to David9694 | 1 year ago
0 likes

You're preaching to the choir in Scotland.  West Linton to Dolphinton.  6 minutes in a car says Google,  21 by bike.  A702.  Good luck as the cars and coaches come by you at 60+.  The alternative (almost double the distance, more than double the time) also has some "go for it" road sections.

I'd say that example is firmly in the "recreational" category (ain't no 8-80 cycling there).  The more acute issue is more prosaic - our "generally doesn't feel safe" urban environments or the hard barriers of rail or "inner urban motorway".

Example - where I passed today.  We're building some massive new developments on the west edge of Edinburgh.  "Embrace the space the hoarding says".  Now it's really obvious that these are planned, designed and built for motor commuters anyway.  Why else would you live on the edge of town near very busy fast roads?  I checked - nary a cycle store, not even a Sheffield stand, not even for the flats.  Lots of parking though.

But with reasonable legs you can reach town in about 30-40 minutes by bike.  Or more likely nip just over the hill to Asda for the shops, or the tram or the train. You're not going to though; one look at the Maybury Road (quiet in the pic) and the "infra" tells you that (bike showing scale).  (Yes, I know you can go to the Barnton shops but you've still got the Queensferry road to cross.)

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ShutTheFrontDawes | 1 year ago
6 likes

When there are no logical arguments to be made against LTNs, it's hardly surprising that the arguments made are illogical and increasingly absurd.

(And before a certain commenter pipes up; no, I do not consider "my ability to get to work within X minutes is more important than your ability to walk to the shops without being hit by a car" a logical argument)

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chrisonabike | 1 year ago
1 like

If they want more cars, maybe Fred should make like Frankie, go to Hollywood and just relax?

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David9694 replied to chrisonabike | 1 year ago
3 likes

I'm too sexy for my car 

Too sexy by far

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chrisonabike replied to David9694 | 1 year ago
0 likes

If only! Bring on Queen's "Bicycle Race"!

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