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Front Derailleur Setup
HI folks, are there any Shimano FD setup gurus who can advise me on what I am doing wrong trying to setup an FD (4700 Tiagra)? I do the following:
- Adjust the FD so that it is a couple of mm above the large chainring and parallel with it.
- Low stop and high stops set using a thumb to extend the FD.
- I shift down and wind in the in-line barrel adjuster so that tension is at a minimum and then pull/connect the cable so that there is enough tension to keep the cable straight, but no more.
- Finally, I start winding up the tension on the barrel adjuster so that chain shifts up when I, err, shift up. Once the min tension required to shift up is reached I stop.
The problem is that the increase in tension required to shift up now means that the chain is scuffing the FD in the lower gears (big or small ring) and the FD's low stop is fairly redundant as it is a few mm away from being effective.
Where am I going wrong?? I seem to have a choice of accepting chain scuff or riding around on only one chain ring.
Many thanks in advance.
oh, 4700 shifters and FD, 5800 crankset.
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You need to flip the pin/"converter" round so the derailleur will move further for a given cable pull.
Aha (possibly!). I checked the FD and the cable entry has always puzzled me as the pin shown above seems to have very little function if one follows the cable entry guidance. Have I got the cable entry wrong, which explains the issue I have (FD shown shifted into the big ring, bike is upside down):
Your cable routing is correct according to the DM. There is a gadget to see which way round the pin should be, but obviously the easy thing is to swap it and see if it helps. It's all about the angle of attack of the cable to the derailleur - very odd.
The Shimano site has a Dealer Manual which diagrams the routing - not the chocolate teapot user manual
I don't know if it's a bolt on or one with a band, but always make sure it's parallel to the chainrings.
I have 4700 running on a 105 chainset and its shifts nicely.
The way I set up an FD is:
Chain on small ring on front and big on back.
Back off FD cable tension and adjust low limit screw so chain just stops rubbing on the FD.
Add some tension back so that you can shift to the big ring.
Shift to the the big ring ensuring that you have used all of the lever travel i.e you are not in the big ring trim position.
Shift to small on the back.
Adjust the FD H limit screw so that the FD clears the chain. This needs a little more clearance than the L setting.
Click the shifter into the trim position and shift to big on the back. Adjust cable tension until the FD is not rubbing.
Shift down to the small ring ensuring you pass the trim position and check that the first trim position allows for small - small with no rub.
Hope that helps.
Get a 105 FD5801 instead. Much improved adjustment. Works virtually out of the box. Plenty on ebay for 15-20
And don't forget that beautiful little trim adjustment. A truly wonderful piece of engineering.
Great idea and well worth a go. I didn't think anything else worked with 4700 and that FD completely passed me by, although it is now discontinued. I get the feeling that without ebay we would all be forced to buy into manufacturers' upgrade plans whether we like it or not...and whether there are any tangible benefits or not.
Anything 11 or 12 speed works with 4700.
So R7000, R8000, and R9000 mechs are the best bet. Ultegra 6800 will do the job too.
Just bear in mind that the setup procedure is very different for that style of mech, a definite RTFM moment as it's quite counterintuitive. Shifting is brilliant once it's set though.
I have Tiagra 4600 on one of my old bikes and ended up getting LBS to adjust after much infuriating fettling.
Turned out needed new cable and bottom bracket as both were showing their age. Once they were changed absolutely fine.
4600 FD is veeery sensitive and seems to go out of adjustment really easily. Even when set up right it's quite stiff to shift compared to newer Shimano FDs. I end up making a lot of use of the barrel adjuster on the hood, it's hard to maintain enough tension for a clean shift up to the big ring
I have 4700 and the FD is a bit of a nightmare to get right even with a 4700 crankset.
One thing I have found is that my shifter has settled itself into a pattern where what was a down shift is now essentially a trim. You need a really firm push to carry out a full shift.
May be worth trying to push the lever right the way across and see if it shifts slightly further for you, solving the problem.
I've no idea if this is a common problem with 4700 or just idiosyncratic to mine!
Nope mine was too.
Your process sounds correct so:
First port of call, the heiroglyphics and Enigma machine that is the Shimano compatibility chart. Note that the 4700 shifter and FD does not link to the 5800, the 5800 being 11 speed, but it's not even compatbile with the 5700.
https://productinfo.shimano.com/#/com?cid=C-453&acid=C-455
It's a while ago, so I am a bit hazy on what it actually was, Shimano did something, which I think was that they spaced the chain rings slightly further apart by a mm or so to allow for a shorter drive train which allows the little/little combination not to catch on the outer chain ring. That would fit with what you are experiencing.
To add, the compatibility chart suggests there isn't a route from your shiifters to use a different FD - it seems that the two most expensive parts you have are not compatible.
Hi there IanMSpencer, thanks for that. I should clarify that the FD and shifters are both 4700, it is just the crankset that is 5800 and I have had this combo running before (and I did check online and it seems many others have got a non-4700 crankset working with it). An extra mm/s spacing between the chainrings would explain the symptoms though.
Oh, I agree that the compatibility chart is a guide, I was rather drawn to why the 4700 was in a world of its own.
I would check the cable routing. It's too long since I messed with them to know which ones this happens on, but some FDs can easily be connected wrongly resulting in reduced pull if you miss out some subtle sticky-out bit.
4700 isn't on it's own. Same pull as the 11sp groups. Think of it as 10sp R7000
(New Tiagra will be 11sp btw)
In terms of Shimano compatibility chart it is was my point. I remember some of the consternation at the time of trying to work out how to repair and replace stuff, as they were changing the pull which meant Tiagra was no longer compatible with itself across a generation which you accept for a change of gear count but odd for a minor refresh.
Yeah that's a fair point. Shimano never officially recommend using kit from different speed groups, because there can be minor issues with chain width and offset. Will be much simpler when/if Tiagra becomes the replacement for mechanical 105.