Not in my FRONT yard: Hinckley residents oppose cycle path... because it may stop them parking on the pavement

Bikebikebike wrote:

Neil753 wrote:

Every scheme that antagonises local residents launches a thousand punishment passes. The photos have been taken during the day when most people are at work, so give a false impression of parking need. We've all got to understand that many young adults share houses with parents, or share houses with their peers, so the parking space required per house is increasing all the time, so we shouldn't dismiss these residents' concerns.

Oh bollocks to this. On-street parking is just another way that non-drivers subsidise people with cars.

While I agree in theory with this, I think its a lost cause as those who feel entitled to such a subisidy are far too powerful politically to take on. People with cars now think they have a human right to park right outside their homes (I wish they'd show a bit more gratitude to those of us who make more space by _not_ having a car...logically we ought to be able to charge a fee for the use of the space we thus free up!)

But I also think Neil753 is right that it would be far better in any case to just make the road itself safer for cycling, via strict speed limits and (best of all) partially bollarding it off to stop through traffic.

Neil753 wrote:

...the parking space required per house is increasing all the time...

But that's the problem, this isn't sustainable. The requirement eats into the safe public space which would have previously been available for walking and playing. And still people behave as if the world owes them as much parking space as they feel they need.

Many of us know that residences in town often don't come with bike storage nowadays, but we don't automatically feel we have a right to berate the council about it. What if I wanted to build a (van-sized) secure bike store on the public pavement outside my house? Is that OK?

Can I demand the council subsidises my "requirement" for a private jet and provides me with somewhere to land it and store it?

pmanc wrote:

Neil753 wrote:

...the parking space required per house is increasing all the time...

But that's the problem, this isn't sustainable. The requirement eats into the safe public space which would have previously been available for walking and playing. And still people behave as if the world owes them as much parking space as they feel they need.

This may well be true. I can think of one road where all the houses have driveways, _and_ there are parking bays painted on the pavement, and _still_ additional cars get parked on the remaining part of the pavement or doubled-up sticking out of the driveways. Its as if the number of cars each household owns increases to completely fill whatever parking space is available.

But how can the trend be reversed?

It does make me wonder about the constant cliche of 'the hard pressed motorist'. If they are so hard pressed why do they keep getting more-and-more cars?

FluffyKittenofTindalos wrote:

pmanc wrote:

Neil753 wrote:

...the parking space required per house is increasing all the time...

But that's the problem, this isn't sustainable. The requirement eats into the safe public space which would have previously been available for walking and playing. And still people behave as if the world owes them as much parking space as they feel they need.

But how can the trend be reversed?

Tax the fuck out of private cars and invest the money in public transport. Obviously, on an individual level people are too thick to figure it out for themselves, already feel oppressed by the government and "ecologists", so you don't lose any popularity points for implementing what they already believe to be the case. They won't thank anyone for it, but they whinge about everything anyway.

Ush wrote:

FluffyKittenofTindalos wrote:

pmanc wrote:

Neil753 wrote:

...the parking space required per house is increasing all the time...

But that's the problem, this isn't sustainable. The requirement eats into the safe public space which would have previously been available for walking and playing. And still people behave as if the world owes them as much parking space as they feel they need.

But how can the trend be reversed?

Tax the fuck out of private cars and invest the money in public transport. Obviously, on an individual level people are too thick to figure it out for themselves, already feel oppressed by the government and "ecologists", so you don't lose any popularity points for implementing what they already believe to be the case. They won't thank anyone for it, but they whinge about everything anyway.

I'd vote for that but its a question of political will. Somehow the power of the petrolhead-lobby has to be chipped away at. As long as so many people don't see any choice but to drive they will not support anything that seems to make driving harder.

Neil753 wrote:

so the parking space required per house is increasing all the time

It would be interesting to know if that's actually true at a national level. I'm pretty certain London has actually seen that trend reverse slightly. Private car ownership appears to be in decline amongst the young here because it's simply so expensive once you factor in insurance costs.

Most new housing in London is usually required to have fewer parking spaces than residents. My own borough seems to be fixated with installing as many sheffield stands for bikes as it possibly can, even though you would be insane to use them after dark. Anytime I see a bike left at one overnight, it's stripped of parts by the morning.

bikebot wrote:

Neil753 wrote:

so the parking space required per house is increasing all the time

It would be interesting to know if that's actually true at a national level. I'm pretty certain London has actually seen that trend reverse slightly. Private car ownership appears to be in decline amongst the young here because it's simply so expensive once you factor in insurance costs.

Most new housing in London is usually required to have fewer parking spaces than residents. My own borough seems to be fixated with installing as many sheffield stands for bikes as it possibly can, even though you would be insane to use them after dark. Anytime I see a bike left at one overnight, it's stripped of parts by the morning.

Now I come to think of it, I have seen the figures out there somewhere on the web - I recall they show car-ownership has increased hugely in most of the country, with a particularly marked increase in multi-car households (I think if anything its even more about people with cars getting more of them than about non-car owners getting cars). But inner London is the massive exception, as there car ownership has significantly declined.

FluffyKittenofTindalos wrote:

Now I come to think of it, I have seen the figures out there somewhere on the web - I recall they show car-ownership has increased hugely in most of the country, with a particularly marked increase in multi-car households (I think if anything its even more about people with cars getting more of them than about non-car owners getting cars). But inner London is the massive exception, as there car ownership has significantly declined.

That does make sense, I'll have to look into this sometime. Of course most of us are part of the problem as well when it comes to parking. Car ownership is just as higher or even higher amongst cyclists. I may not take part in the insane pastime of clogging up the centre of London with my car, but I still need to park the thing somewhere when I'm not using it (I have a private off road space, but just making a point).

bikebot wrote:

FluffyKittenofTindalos wrote:

Now I come to think of it, I have seen the figures out there somewhere on the web - I recall they show car-ownership has increased hugely in most of the country, with a particularly marked increase in multi-car households (I think if anything its even more about people with cars getting more of them than about non-car owners getting cars). But inner London is the massive exception, as there car ownership has significantly declined.

That does make sense, I'll have to look into this sometime. Of course most of us are part of the problem as well when it comes to parking. Car ownership is just as higher or even higher amongst cyclists. I may not take part in the insane pastime of clogging up the centre of London with my car, but I still need to park the thing somewhere when I'm not using it (I have a private off road space, but just making a point).

And having a private off-road space should become the norm. Nothing else I might purchase would I expect to do so without somewhere to store it.

The only positive for it being cyclists who own a car is that they might be less inclined to insist it is outside the front door if they don't use it everyday.

On shared houses, I don't think that does automatically lead to multiple car household. Every shared house I've lived in has been car-free. Young people are less likely to own cars, as are those on lower incomes, and both are reasons to share housing.

HKCambridge wrote:

On shared houses, I don't think that does automatically lead to multiple car household. Every shared house I've lived in has been car-free. Young people are less likely to own cars, as are those on lower incomes, and both are reasons to share housing.

London appears to be setting a trend which we'll hopefully see increase and spread to more cities. I know a few people who gave up their private car and just use a car club when they need one, something I may consider myself in a few years when the current set of (four) wheels is retired.

It's interesting to see how attitudes are shifting amongst young people. Twenty years ago a lot of people getting their first job got a scooter as a cheap way to get about. Now I hardly ever see them unless they've got a pizza box on the back, whilst the hipsters riding fixies are everywhere.

FluffyKittenofTindalos wrote:

Now I come to think of it, I have seen the figures out there somewhere on the web - I recall they show car-ownership has increased hugely in most of the country, with a particularly marked increase in multi-car households (I think if anything its even more about people with cars getting more of them than about non-car owners getting cars). But inner London is the massive exception, as there car ownership has significantly declined.

That does make sense, I'll have to look into this sometime. Of course most of us are part of the problem as well when it comes to parking. Car ownership is just as higher or even higher amongst cyclists. I may not take part in the insane pastime of clogging up the centre of London with my car, but I still need to park the thing somewhere when I'm not using it (I have a private off road space, but just making a point).

Now I come to think of it, I have seen the figures out there somewhere on the web - I recall they show car-ownership has increased hugely in most of the country, with a particularly marked increase in multi-car households

While Glasgow where I live still has surprisingly low levels of car ownership, yes, it's gone up remarkably. From 33% of households in 1991 to 55% now. Multi-car houses are around 15%. The worry for the planners is if this growth continues (multi car or not) to match southern England, we'd have 50,000+ more cars on the roads, where would they all go? That's 125 football pitches of parking space right there.

Neil753 wrote:

We've all got to understand that many young adults share houses with parents, or share houses with their peers, so the parking space required per house is increasing all the time, so we shouldn't dismiss these residents' concerns.

Five adults, all working, round ours.

Only two cars between us. Only one of which is ever parked adjacent to our home. If I had my way the number of cars would be reduced to one, max.

Not only should we dismiss their concerns we should be challenging the assumption that to go without a car, and a place to park it, involves resigning one's position in the human race.

jacknorell wrote:

Looks more like an A road than a residential road... Council plans are sh**e, they should narrow the road and put some greenery in, some benches, etc...

Completely agree in theory - the road look much too wide - but I use a route almost daily where this has been done quite badly, and it's really rather annoying. The greenery (grass) has been placed in the middle of the road. Busses and trucks have to stay behind cyclists (safe, but it's not much fun cycling uphill with a bus huffing and puffing right behind you) and cars can only get past if the driver is extremely rude (very rare) or if the cyclist pulls in to the kerb and stops to let them squeeze by (so the uphill cyclist loses momentum). It's not terrible, it's probably much nicer than what this road looks like at the moment, but it's not great either and it tempts drivers into squeezing past just before the stretch of road that is traffic calmed with green grassy islands in the middle. I thought my local bus drivers were great because they don't do this to me, but then I was a passenger on the local bus service one day and saw an elderly cyclist being overtaken much too closely and realized that the only reason the bus drivers don't mess with me is that I just don't give them enough room to do anything really stupid.