Cycling code of conduct for Richmond Park up for discussion amid "rising tensions" betwen users

"I know the irritation and intimidation I feel as a driver with cyclists crowding me on all sides"

Intimidation? Really?

"if I make a mistake I might kill someone"

Well yes, and this applies at all times when driving. If you can't handle the responibilty its time to return your licence.

I just looked up this story again after finding what I think is one of the funniest quotes of the year. A report on the meeting appeared on Richmond's local newspaper website yesterday, along with this gem -

Quote:

Another member of the audience said: "Driving through Richmond Park is very hard at 20mph, it is hard to keep to 20mph, particularly if you had kids to get to school."

http://www.richmondandtwickenhamtimes.co.uk/news/11680221.Hundreds_turn_...

That's one for the scrapbook.

I attended the meeting on Wednesday and it was more positive than I though it might be.

Lots of cyclist turned out which was great to see.

Threre were a few anti-cyclists there who struggled to make a point above having a moan about cyclists.

The biggest support seemed to be for reducing rat-running traffic which is around 80% of the cars in the park. This looks promising.

There seems to be support for opening the gates to car later in the day at weekends, which again would be good.

Zac Goldsmiths website has a short write up here:
http://www.zacgoldsmith.com/400-attend-zac-goldsmiths-richmond-park-cycl...

The only issue I've ever seen with club riders in RP, is from them mixing with slow leisure cyclists and sometimes not providing enough passing distance. I've seen a few close calls over the years from cyclists startled by this, but it's a rarity, they're usually the safest riders in the park.

Mmm...club riders? Really? I ride at RP a lot and see people in club strip regularly, London Dynamo have always seemed responsible and courteous when riding in a group . Riding in club colors and as a group means you are easily identifiable and tends to promote good behavior on the bike, it also seems to attract 'who do they think they are' type attitudes from a minority of others. The issue is about making a limited amount of shared space work for everyone as a leisure and recreation facility rather than accommodating motorists who want another route option.

I'm not one for siding with motorists but I've got to say riding in Richmond Park has increasingly become a headache and in my view it's some of the club riders that need to show some respect to other road users out there.
Riding more than 2 abreast and having no idea who might be behind them. Strava speed freaks hell bent on time trialing with no regard for anyone.
London Dynamo sometimes you guys!
Yes it's great that Richmond Park is a place were bicycle riders can get away from the dominance of the car on our London roads but it's a 2 way street.

Do some of these "rising tensions" include frustration and irritation caused by the frequent and damaging practice of off-road cycling in the park? People seem to gaily cycle across the grass, pedal down to Pen Ponds past the no cycling signs, through woods and they even use the ant heaps near Bog Gate for mogul practice. If one politely says anything there's usually a rude response or an arrogant stare indicating "rules don't apply to me". Overseas tourists who bike on the grass however, are often mortified when politely approached to discover that there's no off-road cycling in the park.

Perhaps there needs to be a separate map for cyclists at each gate stating that there are 20+ miles of roads/paths/trails in the park where cycling IS permitted rather than starting on a negative note about forbidden access.

The park should really be closed to througth traffic. You should be able to drive in to visit, but not use it as a cut through.
This would reduce traffic levels and get rid of a lot of the problems.

I would ask why there is not also a code of conduct for driving being proposed?

I will be massively surprised if this doesn't just turning into a session for kicking cyclists and how can we make the park better for the poor motorist.

My daily commute takes me between Kingston and Sheen gates. I vary my mode of transport between bicycle (most frequent), car and motorcycle, and I commute all year round at 7.15am and 4.30pm, rain or shine, light or dark.

I have noticed that, compared to 20 years ago, cars are driving faster in the park. I tend to use my car's limiter and stick to 20mph, and nowadays I regularly get overtaken by cars travelling significantly quicker. Have the police stopped monitoring and enforcing the limit in the park these days?

Come winter, cars can't use the park during the evening rush hour, and it doesn't seem to have that much effect on surrounding roads. I simply can't see the justification for allowing cars through the park.

I would suggest that access should be granted to the car parks from the nearest gate (and no further, preventing through-traffic), and only disabled drivers should be allowed in as far as the Pen Ponds car park. Everyone else could simply walk, cycle or ride their horse into the centre. I would happily give up my 'right' to drive miles across the park between gates.

The park would immediately become blissful for cyclists, pedestrians and horse riders who, in my experience, tend to respect each other very nicely. Anyone who has taken a holiday in a Center Parcs village knows exactly what I mean!

The deer would probably like it better too.

I always wondered why do you need to let cars into the Park at all, especially during weekends. I don’t use the road bike any more in the park because most of the times you end up behind a car which is tailing a cyclist while the car behind is trying to overtake you. They could close the park to cars and introduce electric shuttle buses to take visitors around the perimeter of the park.
Also a good idea wold be to separate the trails for pedestrian and cyclist. There is plenty of space. I am a very considered and kind cyclist and few times I have used the trail on a MTB. I have got people literally insulting me just for being there and not on the road. When I moved to the side paths dog owners complained that that I should have been on the main trail!!!
I just wonder when the various cycling charity/ organization would start working a little bit harder to change people attitude against cyclists.

These "rising tensions" - what exactly are they, and what problems do they create, and to whom? It seems it's essentially "there are other people that want to use the park at the same time as me and I don't want to share".

I like cycling in Richmond Park and go there with my kids. The shared use paths are just that, and as long as you ride in the knowledge that there are pedestrians there, I don't see a problem. We've never had any.

There are a couple of descents on those paths where you can hit some good speeds. The trick is to wait until they're clear, and then ride, you can see from the top if there are people walking or riding up. It just takes some common sense.

By and large it suits leisure cycling, not high speed riding.

I ride on the roads there and given the speed limits, I can't see how car drivers have a problem with cyclists. I drive my car there and park up. I've driven round the park from one area to another a few times, and don't see the problem. To my mind it suggests that motorists are having problems with how to drive when the cyclists are around. That's the issue.

As for the deer, poorly controlled dogs seem to pose the major risk.

The pedestrian crossings, if they take priority, should be clearly marked as such. I honestly thought they were just suggested crossing points.

I've never really understood the point of allowing cars into the park in the first place. There are car parks close to all the gates and access to those should remain - but what's the point allowing cars anywhere else in the park?

I too have long stopped cycling in Richmond Park at the weekend. It's way too crowded with all users so its roads are unpleasant to experience and dangerous to use. As exilegareth says it's first and foremost a leisure park - a place for rest and relaxation - so one solution would be to close it to through motorised traffic. That was implicit a few years ago when Kingston Gate was shut to stop traffic diverting off the busy A3 and through the park. Each gate should allow motorised traffic into the park only to access the car park closest to the gate that'd make the park more pleasant to use for everyone - even those that insist on driving there.

The park shouldn't be for through motor traffic. Vehicles have the rest of London for that. It is not a relief road for Richmond, Ham and Kingston.

Parks should be a haven for people, whether they walk, run or cycle. It would be better to only allow access to the nearest car park from each gate. It would be even better to discourage any form of driving in the park, perhaps with shuttle buses (equipped with cameras and GPS to monitor speed) from towns to the gates or car parks, especially at the weekend.

I see increasing numbers of trade vehicles in the park now, they are banned but they seem to take the risk of being caught as there is quite a low chance of getting caught.

+1 for the idea of having a one way system for motorized traffic, a lot of the problems arise because cars slow down for or get stuck behind cyclists and traffic builds up behind that car (including other cyclists ). If a one way system were in operation it would provide more room for motorists to pass cyclists safely .

Don't think it's feasible to ban cars as car drivers have as much right to access the park as anyone else and the spirit of cooperation is best hope of progress. However having a bloc of time where the park was closed to motorized traffic for a couple of hours would be a great idea as it would allow cyclists to ride in greater safety and would I suspect reduce the volume of cycling traffic at other periods (most cyclists would rather cycle In a car free environment)

I'll be turning up to make sure cyclists are represented, hopefully be great to see representation from local clubs too (Dynamo, Wheelers, TCC) !

I agree with one very pertinent comment: a one way system for the cars along the ring and the other lane dedicated to cyclists both ways. The park is first and for most a leisure park. Doing this one way ring road will reduce the commuting and the amount of car traffic all together. Also most motor vehicles should be banned from driving to the centre of the park.

So all of this hangs on some anecdotal evidence from the Friends group, and has inspired some grandstanding from one of London's least effective but most visible MPs? That's a good starting point for robust evidence based policy making, not.

Compared to 10 years ago I feel much safer cycling in the park, probably because of the sheer number of cyclists using the roads.
Just shows what critical mass can do.

'Ten years ago, cars and cyclists stopped for pedestrians and deer. Today they hardly ever do, and if a car does stop, cyclists will carry on.'

Crossing places are just raised pieces of road or places where the paths end and people are encouraged to cross. They aren't clearly marked, and appear to have no legal meaning.

If people using the road are supposed to give way to people crossing the road, some road markings and signs are needed.

Big signs at all gates, and around the park emphasising priority. My preference:

Pedestrian > Pedestrian with pet / buggy > Horse rider > Cyclist > Car.

I think most politicians would want to reverse it, while most commentators on this website would like to start with cyclists.