Near Miss of the Day 96: Driver fails to see cyclist on roundabout

CXR94Di2 wrote:

Having taught my kids in the last few years to drive. I taught them to stop at junctions,. look and move off when clear. The first child only just passed due to hesitation. The second child had some lessons and it became obvious that the instructions from the instructor, were all about keeping momentum at junctions, don't stop unless absolutely necessary. I then spoke with several parents of kids taking their test. They all commented the same surprise. I was never taught this keep rolling method, just too dangerous and easy to miss small objects like cyclists pedestrians etc.

I am a volunteer senior "observer" for IAM Roadsmart (formerly The Institute of Advanced Motorists). I encourage a smooth "keep rolling" method where safe.  I've seen drivers look to the right on aproaching a roundabout and, clearly seeing no reason to give way, suddenly notice that the driver in front has stopped unexpedly.

I am surprised that many of the commentators here don't seem to have accepted that there is a problem which is well researched and just want to take a high and mighty opinion and throw abuse.

As I said earlier I spent much of my time on root cause analysis which taught me a lot about systems and the human failings.

And as to looking around the screen pillars, again I suggest you check out just how limited your vision is in modern cars with deeply raked, thick pillars.

Selective ignorance is the new black in my opinion.

In this digital age, more than ever before are we being told that what we know / beleive is only the tip of the iceberg. Infact if you give in to it, you'll live your life forever believing you are completely ignorance.

So what do we do as no one wants to feel ignorant... we stop caring about knowing anything.

And we see this when driving. Looking around the a-pillar is a case of leaning forward and tilting your head. It is also a case of easing off the accelerator for a second. 

Seeking this knowledge (what is behing the a-pillar) takes effort and slows our progression... all with the added insult that 99% of the time there is nothing behind the a-pillar at all.

Add to that the general social acceptance that there is a 'blind spot'... so when it does go wrong, the SMIDSY excuse is accepted without question.

I can see why people don't bother with teh basics.

Looking around an a-pillar is neither rocket science or hard to do. If you can't lean forward in your seat or turn your head, you need to be off the road. 

Motoring as a whole needs to either accept that there is an unavoidable blindspot and do something about it (car design), or improve driver training to better ingrain positive behaviours and take more direct action against those that are guilty of not seeing. By the way, there isn't a genuine blindspot problem. if there was the motoring indursty would have responded by now if there way. society is trying to imagine a problem to remove accountability from the driver. I believe that is unnacceptable. 

I reckon the second one wouldn't know you're there even if you showed them the video.

Turd!

I had one do the same the other day.   

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPr_fmxbjMw

(30 seconds in)

I swore also.

OldMixte, no abuse from me, but just try moving your head and neck a bit.

I believe that you may had been exagerating when you claimed you need to get out of your vehicle to see around the A piller, but if it really the case, then you have the wrong vehicle, it would seem to me it should probably not be on the road.

Quote:

Of course all of those who have never made a mistake will jump on me with abuse but I suggest you look at this report. The frequency of these problems suggest that there is some fundamental problem with how the Human brain is processing information. Not much  comfort to those who have suffered. Motorcyclists, who are a larger profile than cyclists, suffer also from SMIDSY, Sorry Mate I Didn't See You.

Yes, it's called being a selfish twat.

That is the onkly way I can describe the truck driver on this afternoon's drive home. Wide road, cars parked either side and comfortable for cars to pass on each carriageway. Anything larger should, IMHO, wait in order to proceed safely. This twat obviously had a fundamental problem in that he couldn't see 1500-2000kg vehicle heading towards him, he probably had a fundamental failure when he didn't see my headlights and had a fundamental failure when he broke the speed limit.

No, he was a selfish twat who drives like a twat because he's in a truck and probably will get away with it until he has a collision (it won't be an accident), at that point he'll be safe in the knowlege that he can pull the SMIDSY card, fully supported by people saying it's a fundamental problem with how the human brain processes information.

For the love of god! Driving is a full time occupation, and if you think that you mind has a fundamental flaw, I suggest that you give up your fucking licence.

"However, I do find it a little alarming the number of drivers who drive up to junctions and roundabouts at speed"

Having taught my kids in the last few years to drive. I taught them to stop at junctions,. look and move off when clear. The first child only just passed due to hesitation. The second child had some lessons and it became obvious that the instructions from the instructor, were all about keeping momentum at junctions, don't stop unless absolutely necessary. I then spoke with several parents of kids taking their test. They all commented the same surprise. I was never taught this keep rolling method, just too dangerous and easy to miss small objects like cyclists pedestrians etc.

http://www.thesaurus.com/browse/expect

 " as the cyclist light was quite eye catching and spread over an area greater than a pillar (the camera probably doesn't show how good the light was). "

My general observation is that a flashing light is much better than a steady one

From

https://www.drivingtesttips.biz/driving-test-tutorials/a-pillar-blind-sp...

"As seen, a motorcycle and cyclist are easily be hidden within the A-pillar blind spots. A small car can even be concealed within the blind spots. Pulling out of a junction without properly looking can easily result in a collision."

"Take effective observation – allow for enough time to look at least twice in each direction. "

Some people truly suck at roundabouts. I've had that exact same near miss several times this year already, on bike, motorbike and even car. Some people just don't seem to look properly and it ends up with these interactions.

I keep swearing that one of these days I'm gonna equip my - still valuable on paper but with odd mechanical problems - car with a dashcam and get it written off by one of these idiots, safe in the knowledge that I won't have to accept a 50:50 split.

I was always taught to expect to have to stop at a roundabout. The practise these days seems to be to approach the roundabout anticipating NOT to have to stop. That’s what makes stopping seem difficult to these idiot drivers.

I could be wrong but I don't think it was a SMIDSY or due to an A pillar as the cyclist light was quite eye catching and spread over an area greater than a pillar (the camera probably doesn't show how good the light was).  It was a case of 'Its only a cyclist IDGAF'

And slow, and look earlier, and not assume because the car on the inside went a few moments before that it is safe!

Quote:

OldMixte wrote:

As I suggested, the best way seems to be look twice. If a cyclist is obscured by a screen pillar or another vehicle the time separation would probably reveal it. Perhaps people should fail the driving test if they don't look twice.

conditions for a collision are constant bearing, reducing range...

as that vehicle swung in on the super 'swoopy' curved entrance to the roundabout, the vehicle was turning to the left, meanwhile, the cyclist was also moving and no doubt, due to the design of our roundabouts to maximise vehicular traffic, remain obscured by the car's door pillar...

It's up to the driver, to move his head when looking, to see around the pillar...

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=313894

https://www.drivingtesttips.biz/driving-test-tutorials/a-pillar-blind-sp...

That particular roundabout has only been two lanes on approach for a couple of years, and most traffic is straight through (the road the cyclist emerged from is a dead-end service road, and the exit immediately before he joins the cycle path goes to a security controlled dock gate and hotel car park). As a result the default driver behaviour (if you're familiar with the roundabout) is to proceed rather than check. Made worse because its one of those with a low profile cobbled outer ring to the central island which allows the boy racers to imagine they're kissing the kerbs through the swimming pool chicane at Monaco.

I used to drive it every day and its pretty rare for traffic to be approaching from the right there - you're either heading to the dock gate or are going all the way round to head back the way you came. As a driver I've had a similar near miss there, people just don't look.

There is some validity in what you say OP, it was mentioned in this item http://road.cc/content/news/235330-new-research-finds-many-drivers-reall...

However, I do find it a little alarming the number of drivers who drive up to junctions and roundabouts at speed. I am always wondering if they are going to pull out on me and also why the hell are they driving so fast and reducing their ability to determine if anyone is coming.

Well it's humans who cause traffic accidents. A common cause at roundabouts is for drivers to check to their right, see nothing is coming and move off but unfortunately the guy in front of them didn't move and you get a collision.

Every time a human does something there is a risk, the trick is to minimise the risk or effects. As to moving your head around a screen pillar, in my bog standard family car the only way to do that is to get out of the seat, so I don't understand that comment.

As I suggested, the best way seems to be look twice. If a cyclist is obscured by a screen pillar or another vehicle the time separation would probably reveal it. Perhaps people should fail the driving test if they don't look twice.

I have spent most of my working life doing root cause analysis and as soon as you see a cluster there is usually a common problem.

Unfortunately people do make mistakes, sometime the results are devastating.