Threefold rise in cycling in Cheltenham town centre after car ban

Hywel wrote:

I live & work in Cheltenham's town centre.  The closure is another disastrous nail in the coffin of a town centre that is dying.

These figures are, at least it seems, nonsensical, so I've requested the source stats and data from the councils concerned.  Describing increases and decreases purely in terms of percentage isn't useful - 206% of how many?  What has the change in journeys made by car been?

Asking for the figures is fair enough, but the change in car journeys is given in the text: "an 85 per cent reduction in the number of motor vehicles, says Cheltenham Borough Council."

Quote:

The closure has only changed access to vehicles other than buses, taxis, and a few other exempt classes for around a mile, and at the outbound end of the closure the road has been made two-way.  This may not seem like a lot, but given that it's part of Cheltenham's backward one-way system it's actually catastrophic.  When the closure was planned no attempt was made to investigate alternative traffic flow, so the knock-on effect in other, much smaller roads, has been significantly detrimental.

I would certainly disregard Cllr McKinlay, who has demonstrated remarkable ignorance in respect of this and other connected schemes, such as the hot-tub planters.

Cheltenham has a fairly extensive and complex one-way system, especially for a town of its size. One-way systems in general are at most a minor inconvenience for drivers but force cyclists to take longer routes than would otherwise be necessary and expose pedestrians to danger through higher road speeds, so making previously one-way streets two way is often a good move for people moving around the area, and therefore also for local businesses.

Hywel wrote:

I live & work in Cheltenham's town centre.  The closure is another disastrous nail in the coffin of a town centre that is dying.

These figures are, at least it seems, nonsensical, so I've requested the source stats and data from the councils concerned.  Describing increases and decreases purely in terms of percentage isn't useful - 206% of how many?  What has the change in journeys made by car been?

The closure has only changed access to vehicles other than buses, taxis, and a few other exempt classes for around a mile, and at the outbound end of the closure the road has been made two-way.  This may not seem like a lot, but given that it's part of Cheltenham's backward one-way system it's actually catastrophic.  When the closure was planned no attempt was made to investigate alternative traffic flow, so the knock-on effect in other, much smaller roads, has been significantly detrimental.

I would certainly disregard Cllr McKinlay, who has demonstrated remarkable ignorance in respect of this and other connected schemes, such as the hot-tub planters.

I live and work in the town centre (spitting distance from the new John Lewis and minutes away from this closure). I applaud the audacity of council for putting this into action, even in the face of reactionary nimbyism.

Is the town centre dying? It's having major investment to counteract any 'dying' and we have more shops than we've had for years, of a better quality, and making life easier for pedestrians can only ever be a good thing. Have you been in to town on a weekend? It's rammed.

Cheltenham DOES need to look at it's roads, yes, but slating something that has improved cycling and walking in town does little to help. We should be aiming to reduce car journeys in town everywhere. Most of the complaints I've heard are from parents (I can't drive to pick up my child from school) and shopowners who are under the impression that their businesses are suffering because poeple can't drive directly past their storefront.

The closure of boots corner (and the associated renovations) have made that end of the town centre much more pleaseant (whatever yout thoughts on fake grass).

Any planning that makes driving in town less appealing (without negatively impacting public transport, walking or cycling)  is a good thing, to me.

whoishJ wrote:

Hywel wrote:

I live & work in Cheltenham's town centre.  The closure is another disastrous nail in the coffin of a town centre that is dying.

These figures are, at least it seems, nonsensical, so I've requested the source stats and data from the councils concerned.  Describing increases and decreases purely in terms of percentage isn't useful - 206% of how many?  What has the change in journeys made by car been?

The closure has only changed access to vehicles other than buses, taxis, and a few other exempt classes for around a mile, and at the outbound end of the closure the road has been made two-way.  This may not seem like a lot, but given that it's part of Cheltenham's backward one-way system it's actually catastrophic.  When the closure was planned no attempt was made to investigate alternative traffic flow, so the knock-on effect in other, much smaller roads, has been significantly detrimental.

I would certainly disregard Cllr McKinlay, who has demonstrated remarkable ignorance in respect of this and other connected schemes, such as the hot-tub planters.

I live and work in the town centre (spitting distance from the new John Lewis and minutes away from this closure). I applaud the audacity of council for putting this into action, even in the face of reactionary nimbyism.

Is the town centre dying? It's having major investment to counteract any 'dying' and we have more shops than we've had for years, of a better quality, and making life easier for pedestrians can only ever be a good thing. Have you been in to town on a weekend? It's rammed.

Cheltenham DOES need to look at it's roads, yes, but slating something that has improved cycling and walking in town does little to help. We should be aiming to reduce car journeys in town everywhere. Most of the complaints I've heard are from parents (I can't drive to pick up my child from school) and shopowners who are under the impression that their businesses are suffering because poeple can't drive directly past their storefront.

The closure of boots corner (and the associated renovations) have made that end of the town centre much more pleaseant (whatever yout thoughts on fake grass).

Any planning that makes driving in town less appealing (without negatively impacting public transport, walking or cycling)  is a good thing, to me.

As a resident of Cheltenham the scheme has my approval. Anything that reduces motorised traffic and air polution in the town centre is a good thing. It seems as if some people will disagree with anything that inconveniences them or forces them to change their habits even if it is a good thing for the wider public and the environment.

The local Conservative MP has now jumped on the bandwagon of local outrage about the scheme, which is strange considering he is a member of the All Party Parlimentary Cycling Group. 

As for Hywel's comments I do think the stats are suspect, especially the rise in the number of pedestrians, but the suggestion that the town centre is dying is nonsense. Compared to many town and cities across the UK Cheltenham is doing well.   

Hywel wrote:

I live & work in Cheltenham's town centre.  The closure is another disastrous nail in the coffin of a town centre that is dying.

These figures are, at least it seems, nonsensical, so I've requested the source stats and data from the councils concerned.  Describing increases and decreases purely in terms of percentage isn't useful - 206% of how many?  What has the change in journeys made by car been?

The closure has only changed access to vehicles other than buses, taxis, and a few other exempt classes for around a mile, and at the outbound end of the closure the road has been made two-way.  This may not seem like a lot, but given that it's part of Cheltenham's backward one-way system it's actually catastrophic.  When the closure was planned no attempt was made to investigate alternative traffic flow, so the knock-on effect in other, much smaller roads, has been significantly detrimental.

I would certainly disregard Cllr McKinlay, who has demonstrated remarkable ignorance in respect of this and other connected schemes, such as the hot-tub planters.

Are you going to give an accurate figure on the flow of traffic elsewhere as you appear to be making unsubstantiated claims for smaller roads and that it is "significant"?

How much exactly is that. Oh wait, you haven't actually got any figures at all have you because in your haste to attack someone who is trying to save lives, make the place you live better for everyone and make the air more breathable as well as aiding the NHS you've exposed yourself as a gobshite with nothing to back your claims.

Off you trot sonshine, there's a bridge waiting for you.

David9694 wrote:

YOU-CAN’T-POSSIBLY-gasp-STOP-ME-gag-DRIVING-MY-c-c-CAR-INTO-EVERY-CORNER-splutter-OF-THE-t-t-tTOWN-IT’S-MY-GOD-GIVEN-RIGHT!!

You should see some of the comments in the local news about this scheme. It's beyond awful. People claiming that it's discrimination against old people, people claiming that it's hurting their businesses (never mind the fact that there's parkng both sides of the closed road, and none of the businesses I've heard gripe have their own parking people might use which might drive folk away).

All while completely disregarding the fact that money is being pumped into the town centre (hello new John Lewis, re-paving of pedestrianised ones, regeneration of dilapidated storefronts), and the fact that fewer cars means fewer chances for people to be struck by them, and easing foot trafic through the main shopping thoroughfare.

whoishJ wrote:

You should see some of the comments in the local news about this scheme. It's beyond awful. People claiming that it's discrimination against old people, people claiming that it's hurting their businesses (never mind the fact that there's parkng both sides of the closed road, and none of the businesses I've heard gripe have their own parking people might use which might drive folk away).

All while completely disregarding the fact that money is being pumped into the town centre (hello new John Lewis, re-paving of pedestrianised ones, regeneration of dilapidated storefronts), and the fact that fewer cars means fewer chances for people to be struck by them, and easing foot trafic through the main shopping thoroughfare.

Yep, exactly the same uninformed bullsh*t was spouted prior to Enfield Council's investment in Green Lanes' cycling infrastructure.  A number of local shops have lost my business for displaying breathtakingly ignorant anti-cycling posters dressed up as concern for various other user groups.  "The elderly" (what, old people don't ride bikes?), the disabled (again as though being disabled excludes one from riding a bike - and even for non-cycling disabled people, the scheme included a number of other improvements such as toucan crossings and lowered kerbs), even delivery drivers apparently need special protection from the scourge of cycling infrastructure.

Local Facebook groups still receive frequent uploads of a photo of an empty bike lane next to a queue of cars.  There's no saving the dimwits who think this proves that installing a cycle lane on a single carriageway road, thereby slightly narrowing it, causes traffic congestion (said roads were chocka prior to implementation of the scheme).

It never ceases to amaze me the lengths most people will go to in order to ensure that other people who don't live in their local area can easily drive through it, causing more congestion, reducing air quality, generating traffic noise and generally making the place less nice to live in.

If this trial succeeds then Cheltenham will be yet another example of making town and city centres more pleasant for everyone.

whoishJ wrote:

You should see some of the comments in the local news about this scheme. It's beyond awful.

They have been brainwashed by the cars=revenue hype for so long that anything else must be 'wrong'.

It's the same everywhere. You should see the comments about proposed parking charge increases in Shrewsbury. You'd swear it would be the end of life as we know it. Lots of whataboutery, people finding groups who might potentially be disadvantaged when really they only care about their own convenience. None of them want to admit that their cars are the problem.

a1white wrote:

This is great

It isn't - it's awful.

Hywel wrote:

a1white wrote:

This is great

 

It isn't - it's awful.

Could you expand on that - what's so awful about it?

Edit: I should have read your previous post.

I like the sound of hot-tub planters. Imagine going shopping, getting a bit bothered by all the other shoppers, so you just strip off and relax in a hot tub on the road - count me in!

hawkinspeter wrote:

Hywel wrote:

a1white wrote:

This is great

 

It isn't - it's awful.

Could you expand on that - what's so awful about it?

It's to do with Cheltenham's "backward" one way system.  All those cars driving in reverse around the town is bound to cause chaos.