Centre of Paris to become a huge low traffic neighbourhood

IME  I've found both brexiteers and remainers to be rabid anti cycling and LTN development. 

Two points.

"What's important in this country is that the Greens don't make the old mistake of allying with socialists" I would agree with you if we had some form of proportional representation. Unfortunately we don't.

"there is broad societal support for green initiatives" ... as long as it doesn't negatively impact us personally.

Nigel Garrage wrote:

The EU are way behind government generally in terms of the environment.

Oh mate. I remember what a filthy place the UK was in the 1970s. We were known as the dirty man of Europe. EU membership obliged us to clean up our shitty beaches and stop dumping sewage in the rivers.
That's all going to change now, of course.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/sep/25/england-rivers-pol...

Eton Rifle wrote:

Nigel Garrage wrote:

The EU are way behind government generally in terms of the environment.

Oh mate. I remember what a filthy place the UK was in the 1970s. We were known as the dirty man of Europe. EU membership obliged us to clean up our shitty beaches and stop dumping sewage in the rivers. That's all going to change now, of course. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/sep/25/england-rivers-pol...

I remember it. But the country was being run by labour for most of the seventies. Something that all the tory haters on this website shouldn't forget. 

Dingaling wrote:

I remember it. But the country was being run by labour for most of the seventies. Something that all the tory haters on this website shouldn't forget. 

A lot of the 70s were taken up by dealing with the 5h1t the tories left behind. I love it when tories imagine that everything they do happens in a vacuum.

However, most govts over the past century have been tory, and the chaos and mayhem they produce is staggering. And in any case "but look over there, Socialism!" is not an acceptable response to criticism for the vast corruption, racism, iniquity, and environmental vandalism that the tories perpetrate through direct action or wilful negligence. 

The tories are in power now, have been for the past 11 years, and for best part of 20 years through the 80s and 90s. They are who we criticise now, for their current and past actions, because saying "it's socialism's fault" frankly is laughable.

50 years ago...

How does the EU's current record on the environment compare?

Rich_cb wrote:

50 years ago... How does the EU's current record on the environment compare?

What since we left?

I dare say it's hardly changed, but judging by the example that the attempt to ban neonicotinoids was obstructed by Cameron's govt  I doubt that we are a sad loss environmentally speaking.

It's quite funny to see brexiters criticise EU policy conveniently forgetting that UK was a prime-mover and perfectly capable of getting its way, and did much of the time. But apparently nasty EU was bullying poor Little Britain

Another thing that brexiters seem to be unable to comprehend is that environmental issues are bigger than the UK, and any unilateral action worthy as it is (eg live animal exports)  is much less effective than had we remained and driven policy throughout the EU.

Time and time again UK govts, mostly tory but not exclusively, have been in the position to drive through meaningful environmental policy both home and in the EU, but consistently failed, not "cos EU", but due to dereliction of duty on govts part in favour of short term gains for the few that will ultimately be paid for by all of our children and grandchildren.

Since leaving, that dereliction will continue and probably accelerate, for at least this parliament - we didn't leave it behind in "the Deal". 

growingvegtables wrote:

Fascinating wee sentence in there.  Bit of a terminal blast to the anti-LTN idiots.

"Steps would also be taken to protect small businesses and prevent them from being driven out by the higher rents that often accompany streets being pedestrianised."

Hmmm - that says any of these schemes are GOOD for local businesses?

I was living in France before, during and after the construction of the Millau Viaduct. When the project was announced all the local businesses were up in arms saying that they would loose all the through traffic and business that it brought. There were huge protests. What actually happened was Millau was transformed from being a huge traffic jam which no one, myself included, liked to drive though and couldn't get out of the place fast enough, into the beautiful tourist town at the gateway to the Gorges du Tarn that it is. Tourism to Millau boomed. The viaduct is the best thing that ever happed to Millau businesses. 

iandusud wrote:

The viaduct is the best thing that ever happed to Millau businesses.

It's the only reason I visited the town.
Not that I'm saying that was the best thing that ever happened to Millau...

Likewise - bloody brilliant piece of engineering and design. Pretty sure I'd have just filtered through the town otherwise thinking 'what a lot of lorries'.

Indeed. And moreover, as the benefits of a non-motorised milieu become self-sustaining, the rude intrusion of motor vehicles under whatever excuse will become less and less tolerated. In so far as viable alternatives exist, pressure will mount until they are adopted. Taxi firms might be the first to have to adapt.

"Ah could ask eem, but ah think e already got one" 

Such quotations suggest that there are other sad old knackers on here with the ability to quote from MP. I am not alone! I am not a number, I am a free man!

Yay Brexit. They told us it would take a while for the benefits to become clear.

True, true!

I was surprised the other day when a co-worker recognised my phone text alert - the word "Information" from The Prisoner.

In your organisation, who is Number 1?

Duncann wrote:

In your organisation, who is Number 1?

Questions are a burden to others; answers are a prison for oneself.

That wasn't the answer I expected.
Anyway.
Be seeing you.

hawkinspeter wrote:

So when will we get any progressive policies or are we a nation of car-obsessives?

I'm guessing that that is a rhetorical question and this reply is entirely redundant.

In fairness, London does have private motorist-deterring congestion and emissions charges, and some pretty good cycling infrastructure. Quite a lot of LTNs and new infrastructure during the pandemic too. There aren't many private cars in the heart of the city - taxis, buses and good vehicles are another matter but Paris is permitting them too.

Which isn't to say it couldn't be better (not least in K&C, mentioned below) but it's not pandering to "car obsessives" (I don't think most Londoners own one anyway and ownership was falling in the past couple of decades).

The problems are the provinces, as we Metropolian Elitists say.

I don't know quite how the local administration of Paris works, but that might be a key difference: it's governed as a city rather than a concatenation of competing parishes (or boroughs as Londoners like to call them).