Tour de France reintroduces mask mandate as Carlos Rodriguez describes Covid as "invisible rival" after teammates Tom Pidcock and Geraint Thomas test positive

Rendel Harris wrote:

Well that's a bit astonishing in its nonsensicality, people with whom the riders might associate for a few moments before the start must wear masks to stop the riders being infected before they set off to ride 200km shoulder-to-shoulder with people who are infected?

Genuine question - has there been much/any evidence of covid spreading through the peleton whilst riding (as opposed to all the indoor interactions in hotels etc).  My impression from 2020 was the lack of spread through the peleton suggested that it was pretty difficult to spread covid outdoors.

But what about the plumes of infection?

Steve K wrote:

 Genuine question - has there been much/any evidence of covid spreading through the peleton whilst riding (as opposed to all the indoor interactions in hotels etc).  My impression from 2020 was the lack of spread through the peleton suggested that it was pretty difficult to spread covid outdoors.

I guess it would be almost impossible to determine at which exact point someone is infected in this situation... it takes some time to test positive after being infected, and even longer to be ill (and Cold-19 was either totally asymptomatic or only lightly perceptible for most healthy people!)

Although the survival rate of the virus is certainly much lower outdoors, they often ride so close that any cough or talk could spread it quite efficiently?

"either totally asymptomatic or only lightly perceptible for most healthy people"

Got some research on that? I managed to get three confirmed cases. First one was an absolute shocker.

KDee wrote:

"either totally asymptomatic or only lightly perceptible for most healthy people"

Got some research on that? I managed to get three confirmed cases. First one was an absolute shocker.

And the later ones weren't. That's... your immune system doing its job. Everyone in the world has had it now, probably several times, bar babies.

Third dose wasn't much better than the first. Middle one was just a scratchy throat. I think with something that's prone to rapid mutation, they're being wise. And I'm pretty sure most athletes don't fancy ending their career due to long covid.

KDee wrote:

Third dose wasn't much better than the first.

Same here, I've had four goes of it (greedy I know), first came within a toucher of going to A&E as could barely breathe, second and third just like bad colds, fourth like a really, really bad dose of 'flu. Everyone responds differently, it's a bit galling to see people for whom it has only ever been a bad cold telling everyone else that's how they should experience it too.

KDee wrote:

Third dose wasn't much better than the first. Middle one was just a scratchy throat. I think with something that's prone to rapid mutation, they're being wise. And I'm pretty sure most athletes don't fancy ending their career due to long covid.

No one wants to get sick. But masks aren't going to stop covid.

We live in a biological soup. Each breathe you take is chock-a-bloc with viruses (most unknown to science; thankfully, most from families not known to affect animals). You will get at least several respiratory infections every year. Most will be trivial, 1 or 2 maybe make you mildly ill. Every few years you'll get something where the virus has evolved just enough to make you feel rotten again. Be it some kind of rhinovirus, influenza virus, or coronovirus (of which there a number circulating around in humans). Every 10 to 20 years we see the passage of a virus that causes enough serious illness to raise mortality rates for a season or two .

We do not know of any way to prevent this. Certainly, surgical masks do not. They did not in 1918 - 1919. They didn't in 2020 - 2022.

They're going to make fuck all difference at the Tour. Except to further pseudo-scientific medical nonsense and idiocy (i.e. "The Science" - a religious movement largely, which has little to do with the actual scientific process, other than twisting its results), and sate the petty little authoritarians who like to tell others how to live.

The best way forward is to live your life, and have society give good medical care to those who get ill.

Paul J wrote:

No one wants to get sick. But masks aren't going to stop covid.

Stop COVID? No, but it has been proven to slow transmission rates.
The lethality has significantly dropped off, but whilst it's still just about more potent than the "common" colds, reducing the likelihood of the virus getting into the peloton is still a reasonable ideal.

I do think that this move is a bit like bolting the stable door after the horse has fled though, with so many riders already affected

ROOTminus1 wrote:

Paul J wrote:

No one wants to get sick. But masks aren't going to stop covid.

Stop COVID? No, but it has been proven to slow transmission rates.

This is simply false. At least if by "proven" we mean "high quality evidence". Which would mean meta-analyses of randomised, (cluster-)?controlled studies (RCTs).

Stuff like tests with mannequins, or telephone surveys, etc., are very poor forms of evidence, and these are not forms of evidence on which policy should be based.

There is no high quality evidence anywhere showing that masks stop or reduce incidence of respiratory illnesses, including covid19. NO EVIDENCE of sufficient quality that you would want to base decisions on. Just stop claiming there is, because it's not true.

"At least 20% of people infected with SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, never showed symptoms.:" NIH RESEARCH MATTERS Genetic variant associated with absence of COVID-19 symptoms

Just search for it, plenty of publications, even from the early Chinese period.

Sorry for you, but the vast majority of victims were either overweight, or had serious breathing issues. Cancer and diabetes patients were (are?) curiously also more at risk. Kids were even less sucseptible to show symptoms, with almost no serious risk for healthy individuals...

I got the "19" version early, smell loss was the only sympton (but it lasted for months in my case!). My 90+ yo mother tested at least 3 x positive, at worst it was barely noticeable, although starting from the 3rd time she was vaccinated so it might have helped...

Now every variant of cold (and flu) viruses come with different virulence, including Corona (which has always been the main cold virus)...

Yeah I would have thought that the dispersal effect of riding ~40kph would mitigate much of the chance, it'd need to be a rider with a very high viral load to be able to spread it in that situation, however I'm really surprised at them allowing G to remain on the tour, knowing that he is going to be at sign on and other areas before and after. I don't really get what he hopes to achieve by remaining on the race beyond risking exposing others.

I think it's more a case of you control what you can control, and accept that while you cannot eliminate risk, there are sensible and relatively easy ways you can reduce risks. The risks of spreading/catching COVID outdoors are much, much lower than indoors, and anything that can be done to improve ventilation of any indoor spaces should be prioritised. 

It would be interesting to know what kind of viral load is released in any single breath when the individual is heavy breathing for a long period. I'd speculate that while total shedding could be high, any single out breath in a well ventilated space means concentrations in the air are very low.

Ideally the other measures would have been in place sooner to make it less likely that anyone in the peleton has COVID in the first place.

I don't see that. Unless there's a strong sidewind, if a rider coughs, sneezes, blows his nose etc., where is what comes out going to go, if not into the faces of the riders behind?