Five cool things coming soon from Forme, Fabric, Everysight, Giro and RooDol

FluffyKittenofTindalos wrote:

Personally, though, I don't see that US problems with their own gun laws are really my concern.  It's up to Americans to decide what they want to do about it.  And the NRA's spending doesn't actually appear to be a deciding factor (spending equal money on the other side didn't seem to do much to change outcomes), it seems to be just down to US voter priorities.  Those who want gun-control just don't seem feel as strongly as those opposed to it.

 

The number of gun-owners is slowly declining, so maybe eventually the fanatical pro-gunners will be electorally overwhelmed by weight of numbers of the mildly anti-gun voters.

I was under the impression that the gun control side had much less money to spend as there's very little money to be made by NOT selling guns.

I just found this site (I have no idea how accurate/biased they are):

https://www.opensecrets.org/news/issues/guns/

and those figures suggest that twice as much money is spent on lobbying for gun rights compared to gun control.

hairyderriere wrote:

But then, this news that they are to sell their bike holdings?

I wouldn't hold your breath if I were you. A more cynical person might think that Vista Outdoor announced their intention to sell some brands (Bell, Blackburn, Giro) just to placate cycling customers who don't appreciate the huge political interference that the NRA engages in (and that Vista supports).

An even more cynical person might notice the more recent news tht Vista have changed their priorities: https://www.bicycleretailer.com/industry-news/2018/08/09/vista-plans-sel...

Quote:

Vista announced in May that it planned a major restructuring and refocus that includes selling its Savage and Stevens firearms brands, its Jimmy Styks paddleboard brand, Bell, Giro and Blackburn, the Copilot bike baby carrier brand, and the Raskullz and Krashco helmet brands. It said it would retain CamelBak, Camp Chef, and Bushnell, as well as its ammo' brands.

Vista had previously announced that it planned to sell its Bollé, Cebé and Serengeti brands, and in July it reached an agreement to sell them to a private equity group for $158 million. While those brands are primarily known for their eyewear, Bollé also sells bike helmets.

In a conference call with investors Thursday morning, Vista executives said that with the eyewear brands disposed of, they will now turn their attention to selling the other brands, starting with Savage and Stevens.

hawkinspeter wrote:

hairyderriere wrote:

But then, this news that they are to sell their bike holdings?

I wouldn't hold your breath if I were you. A more cynical person might think that Vista Outdoor announced their intention to sell some brands (Bell, Blackburn, Giro) just to placate cycling customers who don't appreciate the huge political interference that the NRA engages in (and that Vista supports).

An even more cynical person might notice the more recent news tht Vista have changed their priorities: https://www.bicycleretailer.com/industry-news/2018/08/09/vista-plans-sel...

Quote:

Vista announced in May that it planned a major restructuring and refocus that includes selling its Savage and Stevens firearms brands, its Jimmy Styks paddleboard brand, Bell, Giro and Blackburn, the Copilot bike baby carrier brand, and the Raskullz and Krashco helmet brands. It said it would retain CamelBak, Camp Chef, and Bushnell, as well as its ammo' brands.

Vista had previously announced that it planned to sell its Bollé, Cebé and Serengeti brands, and in July it reached an agreement to sell them to a private equity group for $158 million. While those brands are primarily known for their eyewear, Bollé also sells bike helmets.

In a conference call with investors Thursday morning, Vista executives said that with the eyewear brands disposed of, they will now turn their attention to selling the other brands, starting with Savage and Stevens.

 

But if the boycott of those brands results in a fall in revenues and profits won't it make it harder for Vista to sell them? And in a worse case scenario simply result in them being shut down leading to a lot of people who design and make some pretty good cycling kit, and who probably don't in any way support the NRA, losing their jobs – I'd imagine a fair few of them aren't even based in the US. Vista will roll on as before – they might even be able to write off the closures against tax. 
If people want to boycott something well that's a personal decision, but it's also worth considering that there could be bad consequences for some blameless people too. It's not easy.

Tony Farrelly wrote:

hawkinspeter wrote:

hairyderriere wrote:

But then, this news that they are to sell their bike holdings?

I wouldn't hold your breath if I were you. A more cynical person might think that Vista Outdoor announced their intention to sell some brands (Bell, Blackburn, Giro) just to placate cycling customers who don't appreciate the huge political interference that the NRA engages in (and that Vista supports).

An even more cynical person might notice the more recent news tht Vista have changed their priorities: https://www.bicycleretailer.com/industry-news/2018/08/09/vista-plans-sel...

Quote:

Vista announced in May that it planned a major restructuring and refocus that includes selling its Savage and Stevens firearms brands, its Jimmy Styks paddleboard brand, Bell, Giro and Blackburn, the Copilot bike baby carrier brand, and the Raskullz and Krashco helmet brands. It said it would retain CamelBak, Camp Chef, and Bushnell, as well as its ammo' brands.

Vista had previously announced that it planned to sell its Bollé, Cebé and Serengeti brands, and in July it reached an agreement to sell them to a private equity group for $158 million. While those brands are primarily known for their eyewear, Bollé also sells bike helmets.

In a conference call with investors Thursday morning, Vista executives said that with the eyewear brands disposed of, they will now turn their attention to selling the other brands, starting with Savage and Stevens.

 

But if the boycott of those brands results in a fall in revenues and profits won't it make it harder for Vista to sell them? And in a worse case scenario simply result in them being shut down leading to a lot of people who design and make some pretty good cycling kit, and who probably don't in any way support the NRA, losing their jobs – I'd imagine a fair few of them aren't even based in the US. Vista will roll on as before – they might even be able to write off the closures against tax. 
If people want to boycott something well that's a personal decision, but it's also worth considering that there could be bad consequences for some blameless people too. It's not easy.

Yes, I get your point, but it's similar to arguing about all the innocent people working on the Death Star when that got blown up. You could be Mr Stevens, Head of Catering on the Death Star, but sometimes you have to make a stand and not serve peas to Darth Vader (or at least not with penne).

hawkinspeter wrote:

Tony Farrelly wrote:

hawkinspeter wrote:

hairyderriere wrote:

But then, this news that they are to sell their bike holdings?

I wouldn't hold your breath if I were you. A more cynical person might think that Vista Outdoor announced their intention to sell some brands (Bell, Blackburn, Giro) just to placate cycling customers who don't appreciate the huge political interference that the NRA engages in (and that Vista supports).

An even more cynical person might notice the more recent news tht Vista have changed their priorities: https://www.bicycleretailer.com/industry-news/2018/08/09/vista-plans-sel...

Quote:

Vista announced in May that it planned a major restructuring and refocus that includes selling its Savage and Stevens firearms brands, its Jimmy Styks paddleboard brand, Bell, Giro and Blackburn, the Copilot bike baby carrier brand, and the Raskullz and Krashco helmet brands. It said it would retain CamelBak, Camp Chef, and Bushnell, as well as its ammo' brands.

Vista had previously announced that it planned to sell its Bollé, Cebé and Serengeti brands, and in July it reached an agreement to sell them to a private equity group for $158 million. While those brands are primarily known for their eyewear, Bollé also sells bike helmets.

In a conference call with investors Thursday morning, Vista executives said that with the eyewear brands disposed of, they will now turn their attention to selling the other brands, starting with Savage and Stevens.

 

But if the boycott of those brands results in a fall in revenues and profits won't it make it harder for Vista to sell them? And in a worse case scenario simply result in them being shut down leading to a lot of people who design and make some pretty good cycling kit, and who probably don't in any way support the NRA, losing their jobs – I'd imagine a fair few of them aren't even based in the US. Vista will roll on as before – they might even be able to write off the closures against tax. 
If people want to boycott something well that's a personal decision, but it's also worth considering that there could be bad consequences for some blameless people too. It's not easy.

Yes, I get your point, but it's similar to arguing about all the innocent people working on the Death Star when that got blown up. You could be Mr Stevens, Head of Catering on the Death Star, but sometimes you have to make a stand and not serve peas to Darth Vader (or at least not with penne).

"Blue Collar Man: Excuse me, I don't mean to interrupt, but, uh, what are you talking about?

Randal Graves: The ending of "Return of the Jedi".

Dante Hicks: My friend here's trying to convince me that any independent contractors who were working on the uncompleted Death Star were innocent victims when it was destroyed by the Rebels."

brooksby wrote:

hawkinspeter wrote:

Tony Farrelly wrote:

hawkinspeter wrote:

hairyderriere wrote:

But then, this news that they are to sell their bike holdings?

I wouldn't hold your breath if I were you. A more cynical person might think that Vista Outdoor announced their intention to sell some brands (Bell, Blackburn, Giro) just to placate cycling customers who don't appreciate the huge political interference that the NRA engages in (and that Vista supports).

An even more cynical person might notice the more recent news tht Vista have changed their priorities: https://www.bicycleretailer.com/industry-news/2018/08/09/vista-plans-sel...

Quote:

Vista announced in May that it planned a major restructuring and refocus that includes selling its Savage and Stevens firearms brands, its Jimmy Styks paddleboard brand, Bell, Giro and Blackburn, the Copilot bike baby carrier brand, and the Raskullz and Krashco helmet brands. It said it would retain CamelBak, Camp Chef, and Bushnell, as well as its ammo' brands.

Vista had previously announced that it planned to sell its Bollé, Cebé and Serengeti brands, and in July it reached an agreement to sell them to a private equity group for $158 million. While those brands are primarily known for their eyewear, Bollé also sells bike helmets.

In a conference call with investors Thursday morning, Vista executives said that with the eyewear brands disposed of, they will now turn their attention to selling the other brands, starting with Savage and Stevens.

 

But if the boycott of those brands results in a fall in revenues and profits won't it make it harder for Vista to sell them? And in a worse case scenario simply result in them being shut down leading to a lot of people who design and make some pretty good cycling kit, and who probably don't in any way support the NRA, losing their jobs – I'd imagine a fair few of them aren't even based in the US. Vista will roll on as before – they might even be able to write off the closures against tax. 
If people want to boycott something well that's a personal decision, but it's also worth considering that there could be bad consequences for some blameless people too. It's not easy.

Yes, I get your point, but it's similar to arguing about all the innocent people working on the Death Star when that got blown up. You could be Mr Stevens, Head of Catering on the Death Star, but sometimes you have to make a stand and not serve peas to Darth Vader (or at least not with penne).

"Blue Collar Man: Excuse me, I don't mean to interrupt, but, uh, what are you talking about?

Randal Graves: The ending of "Return of the Jedi".

Dante Hicks: My friend here's trying to convince me that any independent contractors who were working on the uncompleted Death Star were innocent victims when it was destroyed by the Rebels."

Roofer: Well, I'm a contractor myself. I'm a roofer—Dunn and Ready Home Improvements—and speaking as a roofer, I can tell you; a roofer's personal politics comes into play heavily when choosing jobs.
Randal: Oh yeah, like when?
Roofer: Three weeks ago, I was offered a job up in the hills. Beautiful house, tons of property—a simple reshingling job! They told me if I could finish it in one day, I would double my price. Then I realized whose house it was.
Randal: Whose house was it?
Roofer: Dominic Bambino's.
Randal: "Baby-Face" Bambino, the gangster?
Roofer: The same! The money was right, but the risk was too high. I knew who he was, and based on that, I turned the job over to a friend of mine.
Dante: [to Randal] Based on his personal politics.

hawkinspeter wrote:

Tony Farrelly wrote:

hawkinspeter wrote:

hairyderriere wrote:

But then, this news that they are to sell their bike holdings?

I wouldn't hold your breath if I were you. A more cynical person might think that Vista Outdoor announced their intention to sell some brands (Bell, Blackburn, Giro) just to placate cycling customers who don't appreciate the huge political interference that the NRA engages in (and that Vista supports).

An even more cynical person might notice the more recent news tht Vista have changed their priorities: https://www.bicycleretailer.com/industry-news/2018/08/09/vista-plans-sel...

Quote:

Vista announced in May that it planned a major restructuring and refocus that includes selling its Savage and Stevens firearms brands, its Jimmy Styks paddleboard brand, Bell, Giro and Blackburn, the Copilot bike baby carrier brand, and the Raskullz and Krashco helmet brands. It said it would retain CamelBak, Camp Chef, and Bushnell, as well as its ammo' brands.

Vista had previously announced that it planned to sell its Bollé, Cebé and Serengeti brands, and in July it reached an agreement to sell them to a private equity group for $158 million. While those brands are primarily known for their eyewear, Bollé also sells bike helmets.

In a conference call with investors Thursday morning, Vista executives said that with the eyewear brands disposed of, they will now turn their attention to selling the other brands, starting with Savage and Stevens.

 

But if the boycott of those brands results in a fall in revenues and profits won't it make it harder for Vista to sell them? And in a worse case scenario simply result in them being shut down leading to a lot of people who design and make some pretty good cycling kit, and who probably don't in any way support the NRA, losing their jobs – I'd imagine a fair few of them aren't even based in the US. Vista will roll on as before – they might even be able to write off the closures against tax. 
If people want to boycott something well that's a personal decision, but it's also worth considering that there could be bad consequences for some blameless people too. It's not easy.

Yes, I get your point, but it's similar to arguing about all the innocent people working on the Death Star when that got blown up. You could be Mr Stevens, Head of Catering on the Death Star, but sometimes you have to make a stand and not serve peas to Darth Vader (or at least not with penne).

Similar buts not the same. The big difference being that the people on the Deathstar aren't real (hate to break it to you) and the people at Giro etc are. Easy making a stand when that stand comes down to not buying the bike helmet you probably wouldn't have bought anyway. Less easy, I'd argue, when it comes to to putting your livelihood, the roof over your kids's heads, on the line - even temporarily - to make a stand against a corporation in another country that owns the company you work for because it's making donations to an organisation of which you might not approve, but which doesn't exist in the country you live in, in which gun ownership is strictly controlled. 

Tony Farrelly wrote:

hawkinspeter wrote:

Yes, I get your point, but it's similar to arguing about all the innocent people working on the Death Star when that got blown up. You could be Mr Stevens, Head of Catering on the Death Star, but sometimes you have to make a stand and not serve peas to Darth Vader (or at least not with penne).

Similar buts not the same. The big difference being that the people on the Deathstar aren't real (hate to break it to you) and the people at Giro etc are. Easy making a stand when that stand comes down to not buying the bike helmet you probably wouldn't have bought anyway. Less easy, I'd argue, when it comes to to putting your livelihood, the roof over your kids's heads, on the line - even temporarily - to make a stand against a corporation in another country that owns the company you work for because it's making donations to an organisation of which you might not approve, but which doesn't exist in the country you live in, in which gun ownership is strictly controlled. 

I do appreciate that, but your argument can be applied to virtually any company or organisation (hence my choice of the Empire) and would work as an argument against any kind of boycott. Boycotting is certainly a blunt tool and more people will be affected than just the "evil" ones, but what would be an alternative protest to boycotting?

Personally, I just prefer that my cycling budget gets spent on companies other than ones that (indirectly) support the NRA. If I spend my money with Giro, then other companies would lose some of that money and again, innocent people may suffer because of that. It's just logical for me to not buy Vista Outdoor company products if there's a decent alternative.

Reedo wrote:

Giro (and Bell, Blackburn, CamelBak, Bolle and Bushnell) are owned by assault weapons firm Vista Outdoor. Make your own (informed) choices and enjoy your next ride. 

I had no idea. That's a bind, as Bell are one of very few helmet manufacturers that actually fit my head.

Reedo wrote:

Giro (and Bell, Blackburn, CamelBak, Bolle and Bushnell) are owned by assault weapons firm Vista Outdoor. Make your own (informed) choices and enjoy your next ride. 

And? 

r.glancy wrote:

Reedo wrote:

Giro (and Bell, Blackburn, CamelBak, Bolle and Bushnell) are owned by assault weapons firm Vista Outdoor. Make your own (informed) choices and enjoy your next ride. 

 

And? 

Vista Outdoor support the NRA and the NRA are well known for throwing lots of lobbying money at the U.S. govt in order to influence policies. Basically, it's anti-democratic so some people decide to boycott brands that will put more money in the NRA's pockets.

Reedo wrote:

Giro (and Bell, Blackburn, CamelBak, Bolle and Bushnell) are owned by assault weapons firm Vista Outdoor. Make your own (informed) choices and enjoy your next ride. 

Thanks for the reminder.