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forum
QR vs Thru Axel - wheel change speed.
Multiple times on the Rim vs Diac debates I see comments saying it's quicker to change a wheel with rim brakes. I've searched for any timings but I'm finding it hard to find anything online.
I'm unconvinced QR+rim is faster. You have 2 actions - release the brake remove lever on the caliper + spin the QR.
Through Axle you just spin the bolt. And that's without using the special QR TA's you can get.
So. My feel is that this is a false statement? Thoughts?
If you're new please join in and if you have questions pop them below and the forum regulars will answer as best we can.
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32 comments
If it's something you don't do regularly I think both are a bit of a faff. My current hamfistedness manifests itself in consitently getting the disc the wrong side of the pad with my TA wheels, but that might be down to the design of Spyres. Other than that I vastly prefer TA front and rear to QR for disc brakes, precise alignment means no brake rub or indexing issues caused by poor dropout centering. I also don't miss the lawyer lips. The only minor issue with some of the removable handle TA types is that they tend to foul mudguard stays and so you need to change position a couple of times when undoing the front in particular. In winter I tend not to have them fitted as I've got the right size hex key in my tool roll anyway.
My Giant handle didn't survive the initial attempt at loosening. I think it was slightly painted in, and the carbon separated from the hex bolt without loosening the axle. Given the recommended torque of about 11Nm on mine, I'm not convinced those pseudo-QR levers are up to the job.
There's a video of Kate Courtney's mechanic refitting her (thru-axle enabled) rear wheel in the middle of a XC race. I'll have to find it! Yes he is a professional, but he is dazzlingly fast and there seem to be no alignment or seating issues in getting the wheel back. I'm not sure if that's an endorsement of mechanical ability or perhaps confidence in not damaging dropouts/rear mech/jockey wheels etc but it does show that TAs are fast if needed.
I think I must be a bit cack handed
Qr - wheel never quite in the right spot, so the brakes don't align.
Thru - fiddle about for ages with the rear wheel so that the hole is in the right spot for the axle to go in.
I'm similar. The thing I prefer about thru axles is that once you've got it in, you know you definitely have the alignment right. With a QR, there can always be that element of doubt.
Rim brake + QR is quicker than thru-axle...surely!! You need to wind the thru-axle all the way off the threads and fully remove/reinsert. With QR you just undo the cam and wind back a few threads, maybe open up the calliper QR depending on how close you run the pads to the rim if you have wider tyres.
QR thru-axles I've seen have all been much quicker when removing the front wheel, wee bit slower on the rear.
QR needs seating and checking alignment, you need to open the brake. Setting a QR is not trivial, they need unwinding to free up and you want the right tension when locking it. Front wheel with disc and thru-axle is quick and reliable.
The downside of disc is the rear axle. Getting the rear rotor in while also locating the cassette and chain and getting the derailleur to settle is not straightforward - very easy to get hung up. Rim brake slightly easier and quicker to mount, but you still have the issue of reliably seating the QR.
So it depends front or rear.
The other advantage is compatibility. I have Giant & Hunt wheels, and can switch between both without realigning brakes or cassette. The rim may not line up with the hub in the same way on rim brake wheels, and hubs don't seem to be quite as compatible for cassette alignment.
Given that this debate is more about racing/pro cycling, it's worth pointing out that if you've got an aero wheel/tyre combo that follows the "Rule of 105%", the external rim width is meant to be wider than tyre and so you shoudn't need to open the brakes to get the wheel in/out.
I don't see anything in the OP post to say that this is about pro racing. I thought roadies were people who insisted on having refinements and debates whether they were important or not.
I think the point here is that speed of wheel change is only really relevant to those needing a fast change, i.e. those competing.
To everyone else, will 5-10 seconds either way make no difference at all.
You've not had 12 other riders "supervising" your puncture repair on a group ride, have you?
Isn't the answer in part that the Quick Release was successfully marketed to the public, even though there was a perfectly satisfactory bolt on system before - and properly setting a QR is beyond many cyclists. Nobody would suggest these days that the QR was only relevant to pro's.
Having used both disc and rim brakes, i find it quicker to replace a wheel in the rim brake bike. What i find quite frustrating is that after repacing a wheel in the disc bike, i quite often end up with that dreadful ting-ting-ting sound as the disc rubs against the pads.
If you've got a couple of disc brake wheelsets that you regularly swap between, you can get really thin disc brake shims to adjust the position of the rotors to ensure a perfect alignment. E.g. https://cyclocrossracer.co.uk/products/centre-lock-shims-pack-of-four or https://www.superstarcomponents.com/en/disc-rotor-spacers-6-bolt.htm
Problem is when I am out on the road and fitting wheel after replacing the tube. I only have one set of wheels and have the same issue at home. I take wheels off when i wash my bike and ended up with pads rubbing after that. Could well be doing something wrong as this is my first bike with discs but have followed all the suggestions found online. Any idea what I amy be doing "wrong"?
If you have a through axle then that should not happen as it is supposed to go back in exactly the same position every time, with QR then the wheel can be positioned slightly differently each time. One thing to try is once you are ready to swing the lever round to clamp the wheel pull the brake on to centre the disk, once you have tightened the QR the pads should retract by the same amount to leave the disc centred.
I do have thru axles and that is why i am surprised it happens so often. Could it be the amount of "force" I use when I tighten the thru axle? Could uae a torque wrench every time i suppose.
You shouldn't need a torque wrench for thru axles at all. Ideally they should hold the wheel in exactly the same place and orientation, so I wonder if you've got the wrong length TA in there? It'd be worth checking that the brake disc is on tight and doesn't have any movement too and the wheel bearings too.
Yes, you're clamping the axle between the fork legs and no amount of heaving on a lever a couple of inches long is going to change that. Is the disc warped at all? I find one piece discs very prone to heat distortion, the ones with an alloy spider in the centre are much more stable. Check that the disc is properly centred in the caliper and that the pads are retracting fully and evenly when the brake lever is released.
Probably one of two things, either the brake lever is being squeezed slightly and advancing the pads when the wheel is out, or the caliper is slightly misaligned. If it's already too close on one side but not quite touching, any miniscule bit of dirt or grit washed onto the pads or stuck to the rotor will rub on that side.
You need to line up the rotor in the disc brake too, which is what takes more time in my experience. Still worth the small amount of extra time for the better stopping power as well as modulation and all weather performance. I tried a disc brakes for the first time yesterday and have been convinced instantly.
That's not been my experience when using the same brand discs and wheels. I can swap my Gravel wheels for my road wheels with no adjustment they just drop in.
Unless you mean those awkward moments when you miss the dropout?
You tried disk brakes for the first time yesterday, yet you have all this experience of having to line up the rotor? 🤔
A prudent cyclist is thorough with practicing for wheel changes before riding a bike outside, so they can have total confidence they will not be stranded by a puncture.
In addition to Steve K's apt observation:
One day disc brakes are "poncery", and the next you admit you'd never even tried them before and that, once you did, you realized they are superior to rim brakes.
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you're genuinely struggling to find your place rather than intentionally being a prat all over the comments sections. It's worth some self-reflection then to try to understand why people are so put off by you and what your role is in that. I recommend a healthy dose of patience, maturity, and self-editing before posting in the future.
You've missed the 'get the hex key out' stage for the TA.
That's fair - but if racing I'd be using the TA's with the built in handle.
https://www.wiggle.co.uk/brand-x-twist-lever-thru-axle-1
Why don't the pros use those?
Cos the bloke over there running around in a panic is supposed to have it.
The pro mechanics use an electric screwdriver, so all they have to do is stick it in the axle, realise the bit has dropped out, find a replacement, find a replacement that is the right size, stick it in again, turn off hammer drill mode, find the little button that switches into reverse, new battery, stick it in again and bang, the wheel is changed...
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