Best value replica shirts?

flyingpitman wrote:

The Quality is ok and sizing is, as there chart say's.I have had a few jersey's and still going strong.Colours don't run.Pockets are deep,zips are ok.They aren't windproof or waterproof mind.I just wear a Craft windproof baselayer and job's a goodun.

With mixed results, I've had about half a dozen jerseys from Alieexpress traders.
I only wear long-sleeve jerseys. One thing goes for all of the ones I've had direct from China: the sleeves are too short, probably cut for Asian body type. In summer, to avoid getting bands of sunburn, I have had to wear gloves with long wrists. This has never been a problem with branded items (even from Aldi) or used jerseys I've bought from ebay or other sites.
Zips on Alieexpress-sourced jerseys also fail long before the fabric does. A couple have failed within a couple of months. 
I've also won prompt claims against the vendors for poor quality. If you go the Aliexpress route,  on receipt, carefully inspect the zips, sewing and matching of seams. I've had two jerseys where the size and labels haven't matched. In case you have to go to arbitration, when you order, take screenshots of all relevant details. By the time you order arrives, the product may no longer be available and confirmation may be difficult.
Some vendors are better than others, check the reviews of purchasers. 
One of my favourite jerseys, a La Vie Claire replica from Alieexpress has been out of commission for two years now because I'm reluctant to pay to have the zip replaced. I only wore it a couple of dozen time. It's likely to become part of the mountain of plastic (polyester) waste I've generated this year. 

OmuGuy wrote:

I only wear long-sleeve jerseys. One thing goes for all of the ones I've had direct from China: the sleeves are too short,  

was never inclined to buy dodgy stuff from aliexpress until i read this. I find jersey arms are almost always too long. In fact most sleeves are the same.

Just had a look.  No theft of IP and branding going on there then!  I guess that's the risk of outsourcing production to a kleptocracy. Makes you wonder whether that's why so many Italian brands have been building their own Chinese factories in Italy. 

Chris Hayes wrote:

Just had a look.  No theft of IP and branding going on there then!  I guess that's the risk of outsourcing production to a kleptocracy. Makes you wonder whether that's why so many Italian brands have been building their own Chinese factories in Italy. 

Kleptocracy? Isn't it just an example of pure capitalism in action (i.e. no government backed "intellectual property") and a race to the bottom in terms of quality?

But how is this race to the bottom allowed to thrive? Who is driving demand for cheap tat?  And how can I get the highest quality at rock bottom prices?

don simon fbpe wrote:

But how is this race to the bottom allowed to thrive? Who is driving demand for cheap tat?  And how can I get the highest quality at rock bottom prices?

1. Market forces
2. Customers
3. Don't buy the cheapest. It's like with buying wine - always go for the second cheapest although some places are wise to that, so maybe go for the third cheapest.

Top tip, if you like Spanish wine, go for the Crianza over the Reserva or Gran reserva (as a general rule). The terms refer to period of aging, not necessarily the quality of the wine. As most Spanish buy Crianza it gets more attention when being made. Equally Vin de Mesa doesn't mean cheap crap either.

don simon fbpe wrote:

Top tip, if you like Spanish wine, go for the Crianza over the Reserva or Gran reserva (as a general rule). The terms refer to period of aging, not necessarily the quality of the wine. As most Spanish buy Crianza it gets more attention when being made. Equally Vin de Mesa doesn't mean cheap crap either.

I'm not really a wine drinker, so I couldn't really say which regions or grapes/styles of wine I prefer (I try to avoid French wine just because I assume that it's over-priced). I'm far more discerning when it comes to either cider or rum.

I don't think so, it's more a hallmark of a society that does not respect international law...and in places like China it is endemic and has been for decades...

Whereas disrespecting international law is entirely unknown outside of China **cough**Tories**cough**

Fair cop - I did hesitate as I typed that! But our beloved government aside, if you steal IP or brandsurf in the Anglosphere then you'll be prosecuted.  If you doubt this, try to open a burger joint called MacDonalds and see what happens. 

That doesn't seem to be the place in China where Chinarellos, Fauxleys and a myriad of similar landfill is freely available.  And I get that there are 'blurred lines' because the goods you're buying are supposedly 'from the same factory' as the goods you (and they) ripping off, but there's a price to be paid, initially in the form of quality but eventually jobs....though my point is thirty years too late.

I did hesitate before buying the one AliExpress pro team clothing item I have, but then figured that it was too out of date (2017) and too lowly a team (Wanty Gobert, the Partick Thistle of cycling) for anyone's job to be at risk at Northwave.

So far I'm happy with the fit, the performance and the zip.

Personally, I'm not a fan of intellectual 'property' (and technically, you cannot 'steal' it as the originater still has it) as it tends to be massively abused e.g. Disney's never-ending copyright battle to prevent Mickey Mouse from ever entering the public domain. I'm also not a fan of having public police resources used to protect private, corporate interests but that boat sailed a long time ago.

hawkinspeter wrote:

Personally, I'm not a fan of intellectual 'property' (and technically, you cannot 'steal' it as the originater still has it) as it tends to be massively abused e.g. Disney's never-ending copyright battle to prevent Mickey Mouse from ever entering the public domain.  

I'm very much against the abuse of IP and patents in business, but technically there is a 'theft' in that what is stolen is intellectual property rights (e.g. exclusivity, design patterns) - the infringing party has take the right for their own use without sign of return or redress - the phrase IP is perhaps not useful in that case, it's IPR that's the point. God that's dull, isn't it ?....

'Theft' is the wrong word though:

Theft is defined as the physical removal of an object that is capable of being stolen without the consent of the owner and with the intention of depriving the owner of it permanently

Semantics aside you are denying somebody else the ability to make money from something they own.

Maybe it's more akin to squatting?

Without IP protection innovation will wither as the risk/return on R&D worsens significantly.

hawkinspeter wrote:

'Theft' is the wrong word though:

Theft is defined as the physical removal of an object that is capable of being stolen without the consent of the owner and with the intention of depriving the owner of it permanently

It's the correct word in the UK, outside of Britannica
Try

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1968/60/crossheading/definition-of-...

In particular the definitions in 4 (1) ('intangible property') and 5 (1) ('rights' and 'interests')

..but as Rich_cb says, semantics aside, it's effecting someones right to benefit from something they own.

hawkinspeter wrote:

Personally, I'm not a fan of intellectual 'property' (and technically, you cannot 'steal' it as the originater still has it) as it tends to be massively abused e.g. Disney's never-ending copyright battle to prevent Mickey Mouse from ever entering the public domain. I'm also not a fan of having public police resources used to protect private, corporate interests but that boat sailed a long time ago.

Depends on what it is and how long the patent lasts. eg Pharmaceutical companies do need to be able to recoup research costs to make it worthwhile, and I think most folk would say that's only fair within limits, however that needs to be able to be balanced with  public interest. Once that cost has been recouped there is no reason to preserve a price artificially high over a reasonable return over the costs of production. An example of it going really badly was Martin Shkrelli's profiteering price hikes on patents of vital drugs he'd bought, but had no input in researching.

Captain Badger wrote:

hawkinspeter wrote:

Personally, I'm not a fan of intellectual 'property' (and technically, you cannot 'steal' it as the originater still has it) as it tends to be massively abused e.g. Disney's never-ending copyright battle to prevent Mickey Mouse from ever entering the public domain. I'm also not a fan of having public police resources used to protect private, corporate interests but that boat sailed a long time ago.

Depends on what it is and how long the patent lasts. eg Pharmaceutical companies do need to be able to recoup research costs to make it worthwhile, and I think most folk would say that's only fair within limits, however that needs to be able to be balanced with  public interest. Once that cost has been recouped there is no reason to preserve a price artificially high over a reasonable return over the costs of production. An example of it going really badly was Martin Shkrelli's profiteering price hikes on patents of vital drugs he'd bought, but had no input in researching.

I do agree with the principles behind copyrights/patents - an incentive to create and/or license new technologies. However, patents are granted for nonsensical 'inventions' and often the court battle costs are ridiulously high which means that large corporates have a huge advantage over small businesses and individuals. I don't think that the length of copyrights is reasonable - life of creator plus 70 years doesn't fit with the modern world and pace of innovation (I think a flat 10 years would be more reasonable). If the term of copyrights keeps getting extended (see Mickey Mouse) then certain properties will never enter the public domain which is an essential part of the copyright deal.

I'm after a La Vie Claire jersey and there are various on Aliexpress at different prices, anyone got any idea which are the better suppliers or what to look out for, or is it just potluck?